Oh you are right, activating remote harvesting is a transaction, therefor it can't be done automatically when a new account is created 
I will edit my post above.
I like the term "trustless harvesting"!
Oh you are right, activating remote harvesting is a transaction, therefor it can't be done automatically when a new account is created :D I will edit my post above.
I like the term "trustless harvesting"!
I still think "secure harvesting" is the most apt description.
I also think we're overthinking this :)
Jabos point is valid: If there is "secure harvesting" does that mean local harvesting is not safe? People will ask this, I have no doubt.
I also think we're overthinking this
I think it is important to have a software which is as easy for the mainstream as possible. Therefore I think it is very important to find good names for central features like this before launch or at least in the early phase.
Jabos point is valid: If there is "secure harvesting" does that mean local harvesting is not safe? People will ask this, I have no doubt.
I also think we're overthinking this :)
I think it is important to have a software which is as easy for the mainstream as possible. Therefore I think it is very important to find good names for central features like this before launch or at least in the early phase.
You'll have to explain both secure and trustless harvesting.
Why is it better if people ask "Is local harvesting not secure?" than if people ask "Whom do I have to trust if I harvest locally?".
Also which answer to those questions sounds better ?
"With local harvesting your priv-key resides in memory which could theoretically be compromised".
or
"With local harvesting you have to trust your local machine"
Most people have an understanding of what secure usually stands for. Trustless is a buzzword in the cryptoshphere and outside of that most people will prob have a question mark on their face.
Trustless harvesting: No trust needed, still safe.
Local harvesting: Trust needed, then its safe.
Trustless harvesting: No trust needed, still safe.
Local harvesting: Trust needed, then its safe.
I don't see how that disproves my last point but whatever...
Ok:
Secure harvesting: It is saying it is secure.
Local harvesting: In comparison to "secure harvesting" not secure?
So "secure harvesting" makes "local harvesting" look bad. "Trustless harvesting" doesnt make "local harvesting" look that bad, because there is trust needed, which is true.
Ok:
Secure harvesting: It is saying it is secure.
Local harvesting: In comparison to "secure harvesting" not secure?
So "secure harvesting" makes "local harvesting" look bad. "Trustless harvesting" doesnt make "local harvesting" look that bad, because there is trust needed, which is true.
It makes it look bad just the same. Local harvesting not trustless ?
And no local harvesting not 1000% secure (which we discussed a before). That's the whole point.
How do you not see that it's totally the same situtation just with a different word ?
Fuck it...who cares. Call it "funky harvesting" if you want (allthough I guess that makes local harvesting sound not funky right ?).
Man… Of course we can't be 100 % sure, if local harvesting is 100 % secure (because of possible errors in Jave itself - see discussion we had before). But this is a very low risk and it doesn't make sense to imply a low security to people, who don't know about this stuff. There are a lot more things where we can't be 100 % sure, if they are 100 % secure.
So, I still say: Local harvesting IS safe, but remote harvesting even excludes the very low risk of an error in Java itself. Plus it makes it possible to use harvesting with untrusted nodes, this is the actual gain in this feature.
I would like to keep this dicsussion objective, thank you.
Premium Secure Harvesting - Premium because you have to pay for it.
I started to collect the proposals in the first post.
I started to collect the proposals in the first post.
I don't see my "funky harvesting" proposal there :(
Some proposals.
Trustless harvesting.
Secure harvesting.
Remote trustless harvesting
Secure remote harvesting
Trustless local harvesting.
Secure local harvesting.
or just Harvesting if they make all secure 
"Remote trustless harvesting
Secure remote harvesting"
-> Thats too long and doesnt help understanding. The "remote" part is the reason why we try to find a better term It is not really remote… It can be used locally without problems…
"Trustless local harvesting
Secure local harvesting"
-> Well local harvesting is not trustless, see discussion above 
And I think "local harvesting" doesnt need a new name.
If you say it can be used remote and local then just remove remote
we call i trustless harvesting
and the other one harvesting
Trustless harvesting -> secured by generating a proxy private key that is used instead of the original key on local or remote machine.
Harvesting -> "normal" harvesting by using the original private key.
Don't know I don't have brighter ideas right now neither my English is superb
Yes, that is actually a good idea.
Just always have "Start harvesting" and "Stop harvesting" and a label indicating if "Trustless modus" is activated or not.
I've been thinking about it a lot today. I really like the term "trustless harvesting". I think it more aptly describes the process.
Freigeis has a good idea. Just call local harvesting "harvesting". Local harvesting would still be okay with me though, because it does accurately describe the process. Local harvesting does always have to be done locally, where as remote harvesting can be done locally or remotely. And to that extent "remote harvesting" is confusing. I've actually only ever used remote harvesting locally and before it was explained to me, I kept on wondering what I was doing remotely.
Furthermore, I am guessing that the majority of people will be like me and will only be using remote harvesting locally. Very serious core Nemsters will have cloud computers, but most people will just have one account and be harvesting on their home computer.
Another point is calling it remote harvesting doesn't destinguish NEM from NXT nor does it explain really how cool it is.
Newbie: NEM has remote harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: Sure. I run a node on an Amazon server and forge all my coins there 24/7.
Newbie: NEM has trustless harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: No, in NXT to forge you have to send your private key.
...
Newbie: NEM has remote harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: Sure. I run a node on an Amazon server and forge all my coins there 24/7.
Newbie: NEM has trustless harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: WTF is that ?
FTFY :D
You make a good point though. When comparing it with other forging mechanisms then i agree trustless really is more apt.
I'm still 100% sure you'll have to explain both secure and trustless to people either way.
...
Newbie: NEM has remote harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: Sure. I run a node on an Amazon server and forge all my coins there 24/7.
Newbie: NEM has trustless harvesting. Does NXT have that too?
NXTer: WTF is that ?
Newbie: That means you can harvest without sending your private key to an untrusted server.
NXTer: Damn, thats nice. No, NXT doesn't have that :o
FTFY :D
But yeah, I understand what you mean, pat. But if there has to be a short explanation either way, we could still just pick the term that makes more sense, right?