yes, i like the idea giving some stakes to the nodes abd burning/redistribute the other part. maybe 50/50…
yes, i like the idea giving some stakes to the nodes abd burning/redistribute the other part. maybe 50/50...
I'm wondering if you read the previous pages at all? Here is what has been discussed/proposed so far:
1) There's a distinction between stakes taken from socks and the unclaimed stakes
2) None of the sock of unclaimed stakes will be taken or managed by the dev team
3) Over half of the sock stakes will be used to be redistributed to those running nodes over a period of 3 years. Less than half will be used to buy silver coins for all stake holders (so you would get 30 coins!).
4) The unclaimed stakes are a large amount, but they can be used to help push the ecosystem forward. Rather than having this run by anon people on the internet, we should create a venture capital company and have it run professionally. Because this is a movement for equality of opportunity, all people in the nemesis block will be paid dividends based on the profits from the investments. I don't see how that could be used for FUD at all.
yes, i like the idea giving some stakes to the nodes abd burning/redistribute the other part. maybe 50/50...
I'm wondering if you read the previous pages at all? Here is what has been discussed/proposed so far:
1) There's a distinction between stakes taken from socks and the unclaimed stakes
2) None of the sock of unclaimed stakes will be taken or managed by the dev team
3) Over half of the sock stakes will be used to be redistributed to those running nodes over a period of 3 years. Less than half will be used to buy silver coins for all stake holders (so you would get 30 coins!).
4) The unclaimed stakes are a large amount, but they can be used to help push the ecosystem forward. Rather than having this run by anon people on the internet, we should create a venture capital company and have it run professionally. Because this is a movement for equality of opportunity, all people in the nemesis block will be paid dividends based on the profits from the investments. I don't see how that could be used for FUD at all.
that all actually sounds pretty damn epic.. :D
question about the coins.. is it a case of get one silver/gold coin for every stake? he said he has 30 stakes so he would get 30 coins.. does that mean if i have 3 stakes i will get 3 coins, and if you have 4 you get 4 coins?
yes, i like the idea giving some stakes to the nodes abd burning/redistribute the other part. maybe 50/50...
I'm wondering if you read the previous pages at all? Here is what has been discussed/proposed so far:
1) There's a distinction between stakes taken from socks and the unclaimed stakes
2) None of the sock of unclaimed stakes will be taken or managed by the dev team
3) Over half of the sock stakes will be used to be redistributed to those running nodes over a period of 3 years. Less than half will be used to buy silver coins for all stake holders (so you would get 30 coins!).
4) The unclaimed stakes are a large amount, but they can be used to help push the ecosystem forward. Rather than having this run by anon people on the internet, we should create a venture capital company and have it run professionally. Because this is a movement for equality of opportunity, all people in the nemesis block will be paid dividends based on the profits from the investments. I don't see how that could be used for FUD at all.
that all actually sounds pretty damn epic.. :D
question about the coins.. is it a case of get one silver/gold coin for every stake? he said he has 30 stakes so he would get 30 coins.. does that mean if i have 3 stakes i will get 3 coins, and if you have 4 you get 4 coins?
Regarding the coins, yes.
Dev/marketing/ecosystem stakes are excluded, though.
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
I think creating a community fund that is voting-based (weighted by importance scores to prevent Sybil attacks) is probably the best way to go. People could make proposals through a process that we should decide on as a community (maybe a pre-vote?). Then the vote happens and money is sent out. NEM rule-based accounts should allow distribution of funds automatically based on vote results, so there will be no fund managers. Multi-sig will be used by the dev team until rule-based accounts are ready.
This way, everyone would be able to vote how the unclaimed stakes are used and ecosystem projects/good ideas would get the funding they need.
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
I think creating a community fund that is voting-based (weighted by importance scores to prevent Sybil attacks) is probably the best way to go. People could make proposals through a process that we should decide on as a community (maybe a pre-vote?). Then the vote happens and money is sent out. NEM rule-based accounts should allow distribution of funds automatically based on vote results, so there will be no fund managers. Multi-sig will be used by the dev team until rule-based accounts are ready.
This way, everyone would be able to vote how the unclaimed stakes are used and ecosystem projects/good ideas would get the funding they need.
a community fund is not same as a legal venture fund ?
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
I think creating a community fund that is voting-based (weighted by importance scores to prevent Sybil attacks) is probably the best way to go. People could make proposals through a process that we should decide on as a community (maybe a pre-vote?). Then the vote happens and money is sent out. NEM rule-based accounts should allow distribution of funds automatically based on vote results, so there will be no fund managers. Multi-sig will be used by the dev team until rule-based accounts are ready.
This way, everyone would be able to vote how the unclaimed stakes are used and ecosystem projects/good ideas would get the funding they need.
a community fund is not same as a legal venture fund ?
Yes. I don't think a legal venture fund is likely to be possible, given the level of community support for it. Also, some people will always spread FUD about it as centralization or something stupid like that.
It's important to get things moving right at launch without losing momentum. Spending months discussing what to do is not really a great idea, so we should just say it will be up to the community to manage it all.
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
I think creating a community fund that is voting-based (weighted by importance scores to prevent Sybil attacks) is probably the best way to go. People could make proposals through a process that we should decide on as a community (maybe a pre-vote?). Then the vote happens and money is sent out. NEM rule-based accounts should allow distribution of funds automatically based on vote results, so there will be no fund managers. Multi-sig will be used by the dev team until rule-based accounts are ready.
This way, everyone would be able to vote how the unclaimed stakes are used and ecosystem projects/good ideas would get the funding they need.
a community fund is not same as a legal venture fund ?
Yes. I don't think a legal venture fund is likely to be possible, given the level of community support for it. Also, some people will always spread FUD about it as centralization or something stupid like that.
It's important to get things moving right at launch without losing momentum. Spending months discussing what to do is not really a great idea, so we should just say it will be up to the community to manage it all.
yea ...
a community fund (vote-based, no managers) would be better / more suitable ... If a fund is created :)
Or ... maybe it must be created anyway. At least for testing purposes. The main issue will be, how big part of the "extra coins" are saved to the fund.
Unfortunately, I am not sure creating a legal venture fund can be done easily (for example, the fund can "gift" dividends, but cannot promise, etc.). We might just consider a community fund, similar to what NXT has, though to be honest the NXT community fund hasn't really accomplished anything and it is poorly managed.
That difficulty is the reason, why I left the funds away from the "compromise".
What is the time schedule to create such a legal fund?
- If it takes time more than 3 months, then it may cause these same discussions:
who is managing 10% of all NEMs, etc.
Who are the persons managing that fund?
- They will do that work with other than BTT or nemcoin forum names :)
I think creating a community fund that is voting-based (weighted by importance scores to prevent Sybil attacks) is probably the best way to go. People could make proposals through a process that we should decide on as a community (maybe a pre-vote?). Then the vote happens and money is sent out. NEM rule-based accounts should allow distribution of funds automatically based on vote results, so there will be no fund managers. Multi-sig will be used by the dev team until rule-based accounts are ready.
This way, everyone would be able to vote how the unclaimed stakes are used and ecosystem projects/good ideas would get the funding they need.
a community fund is not same as a legal venture fund ?
Yes. I don't think a legal venture fund is likely to be possible, given the level of community support for it. Also, some people will always spread FUD about it as centralization or something stupid like that.
It's important to get things moving right at launch without losing momentum. Spending months discussing what to do is not really a great idea, so we should just say it will be up to the community to manage it all.
yea ...
a community fund (vote-based, no managers) would be better / more suitable ... If a fund is created :)
Or ... maybe it must be created anyway. At least for testing purposes. The main issue will be, how big part of the "extra coins" are saved to the fund.
All unclaimed stakes should go in there.
Socks should be treated separately. I think the current proposal to fund nodes that support the network for 3 years and buy everyone a silver NEM coin is a great idea.
...
All unclaimed stakes should go in there.
Socks should be treated separately. I think the current proposal to fund nodes that support the network for 3 years and buy everyone a silver NEM coin is a great idea.
- "all unclaimed" ... that will be discussed strongly :)
In the very beginning, when NEM was announced and those coin share rules were
not yet discussed, I thought that the whole amount will be divided equally to
all the stakeholders. And the maximum number of stakeholders will be 4000.
And if the number will be below 4000, then it just means that the 3xxx stakeholders
will get a bigger share. That was the simple picture then, in January.
- "buy everyone a silver NEM coin" - to everyone, who run a node ?
...
All unclaimed stakes should go in there.
Socks should be treated separately. I think the current proposal to fund nodes that support the network for 3 years and buy everyone a silver NEM coin is a great idea.
- "all unclaimed" ... that will be discussed strongly :)
In the very beginning, when NEM was announced and those coin share rules were
not yet discussed, I thought that the whole amount will be divided equally to
all the stakeholders. And the maximum number of stakeholders will be 4000.
And if the number will be below 4000, then it just means that the 3xxx stakeholders
will get a bigger share. That was the simple picture then, in January.
- "buy everyone a silver NEM coin" - to everyone, who run a node ?
The unclaimed stakes could probably help NEM a lot more by building the ecosystem than simple redistribution.
The idea for the sock stakes is to buy all stakeholders a silver NEM coin (excluding dev/marketing/ecosystem stakes). This would take less than half of the sock stakes. The remaining > 50% of sock stakes was proposed to be redistributed randomly to people running nodes that support the network, over a period of 3 years.
i bought over 30 stakes at AE at prices between 1 and 2 btc. so believe me, im really interested in this beeing a success.
the fund will be a never ending fud spreading "thing" and because of that im against it!
yes, i like the idea giving some stakes to the nodes abd burning/redistribute the other part. maybe 50/50...
Tell me if you are really interested in this being a success, how do you think your idea of redistribution contribute to the success of NEM other than contributing to enrich you. Is that what you meant by your measure of success?
because burning is transparent and fair. i am also fine to give all (unclamed and sock stakes) to the nodes over the next years (which is maybe the best idea because this really helps the network).
but a fund or silver tokens and something like that are untransparent and will be the end. how do you want to buy the silver? by dumping stakes? sorry, that is nothing which will support nem…
because burning is transparent and fair. i am also fine to give all (unclamed and sock stakes) to the nodes over the next years (which is maybe the best idea because this really helps the network).
but a fund or silver tokens and something like that are untransparent and will be the end. how do you want to buy the silver? by dumping stakes? sorry, that is nothing which will support nem...
If you read the previous pages, you would already know these answers.
To summarize here:
- silver will be bought by selling in a controlled way on the market
- buying the coins will jumpstart AltNemo and push the NEM ecosystem into gear, while benefiting all the stakeholders
because burning is transparent and fair. i am also fine to give all (unclamed and sock stakes) to the nodes over the next years (which is maybe the best idea because this really helps the network).
but a fund or silver tokens and something like that are untransparent and will be the end. how do you want to buy the silver? by dumping stakes? sorry, that is nothing which will support nem...
So burning is transparent and fair and therefore NEM will be successful.
Give all to node reward and therefore NEM will be successful.
But fund silver tokens and because it is not transparent, therefore NEM will be the end.
If that is how you think, I am sorry, I have reason to believe that your proposal is nothing more than what it is - another crypto shit in the making.
you are not right regarding my target. its more about mitigating as much threats as possible. e.g. 10% of nem stakes under central controll is a hughe threat and i always thought initial distribution is one of keys of nem success. think about what klee happend -> what happens if someone dumps 400 stakes? (maybe a thief)
and yes, i take care of my investment and want the (in my opinion) best for it. this goes hand in hand with the best for nem in this case.
you are not right regarding my target. its more about mitigating as much threats as possible. e.g. 10% of nem stakes under central controll is a hughe threat and i always thought initial distribution is one of keys of nem success. think about what klee happend -> what happens if someone dumps 400 stakes? (maybe a thief)
and yes, i take care of my investment and want the (in my opinion) best for it. this goes hand in hand with the best for nem in this case.
That is why we are launching with multisig. We aren't stupid.
I am not sure what you are talking about, though. Who will hold 10% of NEM?
I'm all for AltNemo and promoting development of NEM ecosystem but my concern is: why should only AltNemo have such a big part?
I really hope other companies will came later and we will not be able to finance them in the same way… this is unfair.
I prefer a big development fund, managed by a committee via a multisignature account.
AltNemo will obviously get a part of it.