Bonus!

General Discussion
#21



It's funny that the user vicvegas007 on here and i think he is mrvegad on btt mentioned giving some NEM out to people who are not involved with crypto currency and he wss shot down,  now people are talking about doing just that.


I believe giving out just like that is not the right way. It should be for doing something, like a viral thing and it should not be like giving out 100NS. I am against that too. Money must be well spent and results must be with some certainty. There is no free tap and we should stretch the NEM for maximum results.

Giving out to people who are not involved in cryptos as starter is not right because they won't know what to use it for as well as how to use it. Growth must be organic and should start from the crypto crowd.

Until NEM matures as a solid platform with enough offerings that are pertinent to mainstream should we then consider how to touch the laggards in cryptos.

And that begs a question. Why and what would anyone wants to use NEM for? Maybe I should start a new thread and see how stuck we all are or how ingenuous we all are in making NEM a great thing.
You mentioned air drops and Stellar as good ideas for distribution and that involved giving it out to non-crypto people. Sorry but marketing alone isn't going to bring in the masses, everyone likes a freebie.


Giving away is different from making someone work to pass the message around to get rewarded. ;)

In any case I will ask this question: How come the crypto world know about stellar and aurora coin? Stellar is new. So I can't say much. But if Aurora was a useful crypto it may well have taken off.

I think we should look in the context of what I said rather than looking at only one line of my long write up. ;)
#22

Hopefully most people will claim their stakes.  That is the best way out of this situation.

I would really prefer that NEMs image remain clean out of this and having left over money will often draw a lot of criticism and screams of "scam, scam, scam!" 

In the long run, if there isn't a good and clean way to distribute the NEM, then I think it should be burnt. 

If it goes to devs, surely people will scream and yell scam.  If it goes to the original stakeholders then surely many people will complain too.  (what about the NXT AE stake holders, how is that suppose to be handled?)

I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.

By doing this, it is hard for people to scream scam.  Basically it would be mining in a kind of PoW sort of way because each block would be guaranteed a certain block fee. 

The most exciting benefit of such a block reward system too would be that hopefully more people would run nodes and the network would be supported more and become stronger. 

Lets say that there are 10 unclaimed accounts, even though I bet there are more than that.  And then the block reward was 100 NEM, that would get us through the first 100,000 blocks.  Not bad at all. 

If there is even more unclaimed stakes then there could be a system where the block reward halved every 100,000 blocks.  Like blocks 0-100,000 get 100.  Then blocks 100,001 - 200,000 get 50 and blocks 200,001 through 300,000 get 25 and so on. 

It really all depends on the amount of unclaimed stakes. 

But...... I can tell you one thing, I have forged three next blocks and each time got a fee of 0.  That was soooooo frustrating.  Makes me not want to support the network.  They have some kind of token now that a person gets that is worth 1 nxt, but it is stupid because it would cost me 1 nxt just to try to cash in my token. 

Anyway, I like the idea of giving it away to harvesters by a bot so that some kind of fee was guaranteed.  It is hard for people to scream scam then. 

What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.


I like this idea.
#23

In the long run, if there isn't a good and clean way to distribute the NEM, then I think it should be burnt. 

If it goes to devs, surely people will scream and yell scam.  If it goes to the original stakeholders then surely many people will complain too.  (what about the NXT AE stake holders, how is that suppose to be handled?)

I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.

By doing this, it is hard for people to scream scam.  Basically it would be mining in a kind of PoW sort of way because each block would be guaranteed a certain block fee. 

The most exciting benefit of such a block reward system too would be that hopefully more people would run nodes and the network would be supported more and become stronger. 

Lets say that there are 10 unclaimed accounts, even though I bet there are more than that.  And then the block reward was 100 NEM, that would get us through the first 100,000 blocks.  Not bad at all. 

If there is even more unclaimed stakes then there could be a system where the block reward halved every 100,000 blocks.  Like blocks 0-100,000 get 100.  Then blocks 100,001 - 200,000 get 50 and blocks 200,001 through 300,000 get 25 and so on. 

It really all depends on the amount of unclaimed stakes. 

But...... I can tell you one thing, I have forged three next blocks and each time got a fee of 0.  That was soooooo frustrating.  Makes me not want to support the network.  They have some kind of token now that a person gets that is worth 1 nxt, but it is stupid because it would cost me 1 nxt just to try to cash in my token. 

Anyway, I like the idea of giving it away to harvesters by a bot so that some kind of fee was guaranteed.  It is hard for people to scream scam then. 

What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.


Burning the NEM would in my opinion be one of the best way of dealing with it. In the end this is sort of equivalent to distributing all the unclaimed NEM stakes equally to every claimed stake (say 5 % of all NEM stakes were to become unclaimed, that would mean all claimed stakes (and developer stakes etc) would get an theoretical price increase of 5 %).

I also like your idea about giving the NEM out to harvesters as that would be beneficial and wouldn't hurt NEM in any way really. A small part of the unclaimed stakes could go to things like giveaways and facets too if going with this idea.

Although I can't say that I agree with your idea of giving out NEM to random people as that would make a lot of fake accounts to be created etc (to get free NEM). It would also make NEM a bit like a lottery...(which is a really bad thing for a currency).
#24

Hopefully most people will claim their stakes.  That is the best way out of this situation.

I would really prefer that NEMs image remain clean out of this and having left over money will often draw a lot of criticism and screams of "scam, scam, scam!" 

In the long run, if there isn't a good and clean way to distribute the NEM, then I think it should be burnt. 

If it goes to devs, surely people will scream and yell scam.  If it goes to the original stakeholders then surely many people will complain too.  (what about the NXT AE stake holders, how is that suppose to be handled?)

I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.

By doing this, it is hard for people to scream scam.  Basically it would be mining in a kind of PoW sort of way because each block would be guaranteed a certain block fee. 

The most exciting benefit of such a block reward system too would be that hopefully more people would run nodes and the network would be supported more and become stronger. 

Lets say that there are 10 unclaimed accounts, even though I bet there are more than that.  And then the block reward was 100 NEM, that would get us through the first 100,000 blocks.  Not bad at all. 

If there is even more unclaimed stakes then there could be a system where the block reward halved every 100,000 blocks.  Like blocks 0-100,000 get 100.  Then blocks 100,001 - 200,000 get 50 and blocks 200,001 through 300,000 get 25 and so on. 

It really all depends on the amount of unclaimed stakes. 

But...... I can tell you one thing, I have forged three next blocks and each time got a fee of 0.  That was soooooo frustrating.  Makes me not want to support the network.  They have some kind of token now that a person gets that is worth 1 nxt, but it is stupid because it would cost me 1 nxt just to try to cash in my token. 

Anyway, I like the idea of giving it away to harvesters by a bot so that some kind of fee was guaranteed.  It is hard for people to scream scam then. 

What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.


+1 , i am with you on this.
#25

Great discussion guys.                Concensus seems to be NO BONUS!!!  ( Ive heard that before so no change there!  :frowning: )

I think we need to get a correct balance between stakeholder coins and funds retained though. Are stakeholders who are located 'far and wide' the best means of distributing coins?, if not then why do we need as many as possible? Nemsters have responsibility and should be trusted to do good things with their coins.

If 2000 register then half of the total coins will not be getting distributed, at least initially,maybe thats a good thing,maybe not.

Looks like there will be plenty of funds for the future.

I dont agree with BURNING coins though as what we want to do with NEM should require all 4 billion.


#26


Hopefully most people will claim their stakes.  That is the best way out of this situation.

I would really prefer that NEMs image remain clean out of this and having left over money will often draw a lot of criticism and screams of "scam, scam, scam!" 

In the long run, if there isn't a good and clean way to distribute the NEM, then I think it should be burnt. 

If it goes to devs, surely people will scream and yell scam.  If it goes to the original stakeholders then surely many people will complain too.  (what about the NXT AE stake holders, how is that suppose to be handled?)

I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.

By doing this, it is hard for people to scream scam.  Basically it would be mining in a kind of PoW sort of way because each block would be guaranteed a certain block fee. 

The most exciting benefit of such a block reward system too would be that hopefully more people would run nodes and the network would be supported more and become stronger. 

Lets say that there are 10 unclaimed accounts, even though I bet there are more than that.  And then the block reward was 100 NEM, that would get us through the first 100,000 blocks.  Not bad at all. 

If there is even more unclaimed stakes then there could be a system where the block reward halved every 100,000 blocks.  Like blocks 0-100,000 get 100.  Then blocks 100,001 - 200,000 get 50 and blocks 200,001 through 300,000 get 25 and so on. 

It really all depends on the amount of unclaimed stakes. 

But...... I can tell you one thing, I have forged three next blocks and each time got a fee of 0.  That was soooooo frustrating.  Makes me not want to support the network.  They have some kind of token now that a person gets that is worth 1 nxt, but it is stupid because it would cost me 1 nxt just to try to cash in my token. 

Anyway, I like the idea of giving it away to harvesters by a bot so that some kind of fee was guaranteed.  It is hard for people to scream scam then. 

What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.


+1 , i am with you on this.


i love this idea.

relatively few stakes can go a very very very long way to help distribution. and it will for sure encourage people to run nodes.

+1.
#27



...
I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.
...


+1 , i am with you on this.


i love this idea.

relatively few stakes can go a very very very long way to help distribution. and it will for sure encourage people to run nodes.

+1.

YES, this is a possible solution, NeXT Horizon and NFD make it to distribution of a bonus....
I propose a smaller reward, 1-10 per block, for a long distribution which may cause more people to join the NEM to be interessande "to mine" some NEMs in peer clould.
#28




...
I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.
...


+1 , i am with you on this.


i love this idea.

relatively few stakes can go a very very very long way to help distribution. and it will for sure encourage people to run nodes.

+1.

YES, this is a possible solution, NeXT Horizon and NFD make it to distribution of a bonus....
I propose a smaller reward, 1-10 per block, for a long distribution which may cause more people to join the NEM to be interessande "to mine" some NEMs in peer clould.


10 i think would have to be the least it goes down to.. the bot cant be run for ever..lol

i was also thinking, to issue a mega list of bounties.. i mean let the devs think of work that would take them 1 year and issue bounties to get it all done in half the time or less, if thats possible. we have a lot of catching up to do with other platforms. and if the funding is there to help us catch up rapidly id say we should use it for that. 

bounty for first online wallet service like blockchain.info to reach x users, and other bounties like that. this will further distribute nem while getting some very very important work done. just trying to think of creative ways to get things done while also distributing. :)
#29



Hopefully most people will claim their stakes.  That is the best way out of this situation.

I would really prefer that NEMs image remain clean out of this and having left over money will often draw a lot of criticism and screams of "scam, scam, scam!" 

In the long run, if there isn't a good and clean way to distribute the NEM, then I think it should be burnt. 

If it goes to devs, surely people will scream and yell scam.  If it goes to the original stakeholders then surely many people will complain too.  (what about the NXT AE stake holders, how is that suppose to be handled?)

I guess if I had my way, I would put it all in one big old account and then have that account controlled by a bot.  Once every new block is formed, that bot sends out a message to another account (not really saying anything) and includes a 100 NEM transaction fee for the message.  That would basically mean that every harvester would be guaranteed at least 100 NEM for each block they harvested.

By doing this, it is hard for people to scream scam.  Basically it would be mining in a kind of PoW sort of way because each block would be guaranteed a certain block fee. 

The most exciting benefit of such a block reward system too would be that hopefully more people would run nodes and the network would be supported more and become stronger. 

Lets say that there are 10 unclaimed accounts, even though I bet there are more than that.  And then the block reward was 100 NEM, that would get us through the first 100,000 blocks.  Not bad at all. 

If there is even more unclaimed stakes then there could be a system where the block reward halved every 100,000 blocks.  Like blocks 0-100,000 get 100.  Then blocks 100,001 - 200,000 get 50 and blocks 200,001 through 300,000 get 25 and so on. 

It really all depends on the amount of unclaimed stakes. 

But...... I can tell you one thing, I have forged three next blocks and each time got a fee of 0.  That was soooooo frustrating.  Makes me not want to support the network.  They have some kind of token now that a person gets that is worth 1 nxt, but it is stupid because it would cost me 1 nxt just to try to cash in my token. 

Anyway, I like the idea of giving it away to harvesters by a bot so that some kind of fee was guaranteed.  It is hard for people to scream scam then. 

What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.


+1 , i am with you on this.


i love this idea.

relatively few stakes can go a very very very long way to help distribution. and it will for sure encourage people to run nodes.

+1.


I do agree it's a promising idea, and gives people incentive to harvest especially in the early (And yet crucial) stages. It at least encourages adoption.
#30




What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.



Although I can't say that I agree with your idea of giving out NEM to random people as that would make a lot of fake accounts to be created etc (to get free NEM). It would also make NEM a bit like a lottery...(which is a really bad thing for a currency).


Very good point.  My idea wouldn't work.  I wanted to give people that are poor a way to be involved in NEM and run a node, but it would definitely get abused. 
#31





What I would really like to see is the 100 NEM given out randomly to any node that is online, so that even a person with only 5 NEM could have a chance at the 100, but I am not sure how that could be done.  To give it to the harvester would be quite easy to implement and to give it to just a random node would be quite difficult I think.



Although I can't say that I agree with your idea of giving out NEM to random people as that would make a lot of fake accounts to be created etc (to get free NEM). It would also make NEM a bit like a lottery...(which is a really bad thing for a currency).


Very good point.  My idea wouldn't work.  I wanted to give people that are poor a way to be involved in NEM and run a node, but it would definitely get abused.


The payout would have to be constrained to nodes that are actually harvesting and valuable to the network (of course, proving this is not easy). While the individual winners and losers would be random, in aggregate, the payouts would effectively serve as an inflationary mechanism. Really, this is very similar to how PoW distributes coins. The winning miner is effectively random and, over time, the mining rewards serve as inflationary to the money supply.

So, I would not be so fast to disregard jabo's idea. In fact, some of the core devs have been thinking of something similar.
#32

Lest we all forget!

It appears that there are going to be a lot discussions on how to treat the unclaimed stakes in the foreseeable future.

I am not going to make any proposals here but I would like to make some comments that you may wish to think about. Ask yourselves these questions:

Do I just want to benefit from NEM only for myself now and don

#33

my OP:

15% to current stakeholders

25% airdrop on some IT and financial university

15% to btt donator members

25% to Gates, Buffett, boards of director/CEO ( Google, Microsoft. paypal, ebay. alibaba, fb, amazon…)

20% some sports event sponsorship (doge style) or donation (ebola cure…)

#34

my OP:

15% to current stakeholders

25% airdrop on some IT and financial university

15% to btt donator members

25% to Gates, Buffett, boards of director/CEO ( Google, Microsoft. paypal, ebay. alibaba, fb, amazon....)

20% some sports event sponsorship (doge style) or donation (ebola cure...)


my OP:

No to all of them :)

Current stakeholders have enough they shouldn't be getting anymore.
An airdrop is utterly useless as we've seen in the past. Might as well lock them into an account and forget about them.
What are donator memebers ? Do you mean people who donated to btt ?
Yeah sure, let's give the rich some more money. If you think they'd then be helping us i think you are delusional.
About the sport event...see what i read about air drops.

That's just my opinion but we need to come up with a way to spread it in a way that not only gives NEM to people but also makes them interested in NEM and gives them incentive to actually engage.
#35


my OP:

15% to current stakeholders

25% airdrop on some IT and financial university

15% to btt donator members

25% to Gates, Buffett, boards of director/CEO ( Google, Microsoft. paypal, ebay. alibaba, fb, amazon....)

20% some sports event sponsorship (doge style) or donation (ebola cure...)


my OP:

No to all of them :)

Current stakeholders have enough they shouldn't be getting anymore.
An airdrop is utterly useless as we've seen in the past. Might as well lock them into an account and forget about them.
What are donator memebers ? Do you mean people who donated to btt ?
Yeah sure, let's give the rich some more money. If you think they'd then be helping us i think you are delusional.
About the sport event...see what i read about air drops.

That's just my opinion but we need to come up with a way to spread it in a way that not only gives NEM to people but also makes them interested in NEM and gives them incentive to actually engage.


i see that we need marketing expert
:)
#36

How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.

#37


How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.


+1

I'm sure we can debate the details & conditions but it's the best idea I have heard yet.


I think if the investment were done right, then it could grow the base of users much more than "bribing" people to come to NEM, and would almost certainly attract better people than just speculators.

For example, investing in a company that makes a social media app around NEM could bring in 50-100 million users. This is much, much more than could be achieved by bribing people or giving meaningless airdrops.
#38

How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.


+1

I'm sure we can debate the details & conditions but it's the best idea I have heard yet.
#39


my OP:

15% to current stakeholders

25% airdrop on some IT and financial university

15% to btt donator members

25% to Gates, Buffett, boards of director/CEO ( Google, Microsoft. paypal, ebay. alibaba, fb, amazon....)

20% some sports event sponsorship (doge style) or donation (ebola cure...)


my OP:

No to all of them :)

Current stakeholders have enough they shouldn't be getting anymore.
An airdrop is utterly useless as we've seen in the past. Might as well lock them into an account and forget about them.
What are donator memebers ? Do you mean people who donated to btt ?
Yeah sure, let's give the rich some more money. If you think they'd then be helping us i think you are delusional.
About the sport event...see what i read about air drops.

That's just my opinion but we need to come up with a way to spread it in a way that not only gives NEM to people but also makes them interested in NEM and gives them incentive to actually engage.


Air Drop can go back to the 1990s with the privatization vouchers.  We've all seen promotion give aways and air drops within digital currencies and I don't think any have been any successful.

#40

Though I hate to play the numbers game, coinmarketcap counts amount distributed now in its market cap calculation. For example, only about 60% of node is counted, because the rest apparently wasn't distributed.


Right now only 775 stakes count towards the NEMstake market cap.


Therefore, we should try to find a solution where all of our stakes are distributed at launch, in order to exhibit the true value of NEM. Yes, it is just a numbers game, but our rank will be important for attracting developers and investment at the beginning.