Bonus!

General Discussion
#41



my OP:

15% to current stakeholders

25% airdrop on some IT and financial university

15% to btt donator members

25% to Gates, Buffett, boards of director/CEO ( Google, Microsoft. paypal, ebay. alibaba, fb, amazon....)

20% some sports event sponsorship (doge style) or donation (ebola cure...)


my OP:

No to all of them :)

Current stakeholders have enough they shouldn't be getting anymore.
An airdrop is utterly useless as we've seen in the past. Might as well lock them into an account and forget about them.
What are donator memebers ? Do you mean people who donated to btt ?
Yeah sure, let's give the rich some more money. If you think they'd then be helping us i think you are delusional.
About the sport event...see what i read about air drops.

That's just my opinion but we need to come up with a way to spread it in a way that not only gives NEM to people but also makes them interested in NEM and gives them incentive to actually engage.


i see that we need marketing expert
:)


I agree that we need a marketing expert WHO KNOWS his stuff but I will not agree to what you proposed without understanding what the outcome is expected to be and how this exercise is going to benefit us.

Give you an example. If I wanted to give NEMs to Jack Ma, I must be sure that he is going to do something about it that will make NEM the Nember 1.  Otherwise, I won't even bother.

Moral of the story is, if we stick to the principles that I have highlighted, maybe your arguments may be more concrete. But, please do justify and not just list down some distribution % and hope that your argument is going to be taken up.

Remember, communication is important. Your idea may be brilliant, but expressed in one line, it can also look stupid. That "stupid" statement can then lead to sarcastic replies and counter replies and turn emotional and ugly. That itself would have defeated our purpose of trying to establish a great action plan.

Stay on course guys. Back up your statements with logic and actionable plans. If you cannot, more than likely the idea will be silly anyway. ;)

#42

I will support airdrop if I know for sure that it is going to increase the user base by 50%. But looking at the state of NEM today, I wouldn't because NEM has nothing to offer.

That's why I set up this: https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2502.msg6228#msg6228

But on the contrary, I would do it if I want 100K people to just know about NEM. Anyhow, I will do it only if it is not going to cost us 2 arms and 2 legs. But expect some of these coins to go into oblivion, i.e., not used and forgotten, just like Stellar and Aurora Coins.

Sorry, I wouldn't want a single coin to benefit us here in the same group. It is called in-breeding. A crude word to describe this would be masturbation. You only make yourself happy and confined within yourself. NEM will not go anywhere like that.

I kind of like the Venture thing. Make it a legit company. But it has to be done properly and invite known industry people to be in the advisory board. Investments are for NEM related projects and nothing else, at least for now.

#43

How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.


absolutely love this idea. :) with multisig we can have multiple people in charge of the fund that need to sign off before any money is sent. so there would be no worry of anyone running off with the funds. making everyone in the genesis a share holder is a brilliant idea too. the unclaimed stakes imo, are public funds owned by everyone in the nem ecosystem. so in return for agreeing to the funds being used in this manner we make everyone in the nemisis block a "share holder" of the fund who then receives dividends, we would over time be returning the funds to the community while in the mean time shoving a rocket up the nem ecosystems ass to propel nem into the big leagues.

if this fund had a large amount of stakes set aside for it from the unclaimed, it would be very well funded and most likely help many nem start ups hugely and get lots done while also bringing a return on investment nemsters would benefit from the dividends AND the huge boost to the eco system that such a fund could bring. if the fund was to be VERY well funded or starts making good profit early on we could set aside x% of the profit every month to go towards paying a dev to do a certain job or put out a bounty for something that may not bring a financial return on investment but would benefit nem greatly. the potential with something like this would be HUGE. businesses would pop up around nem in no time and before we know there would be a bustling eco system exploding into life.

im curious what the other devs think of this idea?
#44


How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.


absolutely love this idea. :) with multisig we can have multiple people in charge of the fund that need to sign off before any money is sent. so there would be no worry of anyone running off with the funds. making everyone in the genesis a share holder is a brilliant idea too. the unclaimed stakes imo, are public funds owned by everyone in the nem ecosystem. so in return for agreeing to the funds being used in this manner we make everyone in the nemisis block a "share holder" of the fund who then receives dividends, we would over time be returning the funds to the community while in the mean time shoving a rocket up the nem ecosystems ass to propel nem into the big leagues.

if this fund had a large amount of stakes set aside for it from the unclaimed, it would be very well funded and most likely help many nem start ups hugely and get lots done while also bringing a return on investment nemsters would benefit from the dividends AND the huge boost to the eco system that such a fund could bring. if the fund was to be VERY well funded or starts making good profit early on we could set aside x% of the profit every month to go towards paying a dev to do a certain job or put out a bounty for something that may not bring a financial return on investment but would benefit nem greatly. the potential with something like this would be HUGE. businesses would pop up around nem in no time and before we know there would be a bustling eco system exploding into life.

im curious what the other devs think of this idea?


great idea
#45

every nemster could get "nem investment fund" asset and then everyone could decide what they want to do (keep it or sell)

#46

every nemster could get "nem investment fund" asset and then everyone could decide what they want to do (keep it or sell)


well there would be a market for the shares the second they are distributed. i guess people could opt out if they wish to not use the nxt AE and wait until the nem AE is ready at which point they could be sent the shares they are owed. we could keep track of dividends that users not on the AE have earned in time between distribution of asset and launch of AE and send the users shares along with the dividends they are owed.

the assets value would be backed by the value of the capital the fund holds(the nem) + any assets it has acquired through investing. so i would assume these assets would have a very high value straight off the mark.

damn... this could be amasing! ;D
#47

every nemster could get "nem investment fund" asset and then everyone could decide what they want to do (keep it or sell)


How about giving every one who holds NEM a bonus from the investment profits, depending on the number of coins they hold on a certain date every month/week.
This will avoid dumping too.
#48



How about putting all the unclaimed stakes into an investment fund that will invest in NEM projects/companies that pay dividends? Then the dividends will be payed out proportionally to everyone in the NEMESIS block (which is everyone who has a NEM stake or NEMstake asset).


This would benefit the community by growing the NEM ecosystem and by paying all of us who have faith in NEM and joined before launch.


absolutely love this idea. :) with multisig we can have multiple people in charge of the fund that need to sign off before any money is sent. so there would be no worry of anyone running off with the funds. making everyone in the genesis a share holder is a brilliant idea too. the unclaimed stakes imo, are public funds owned by everyone in the nem ecosystem. so in return for agreeing to the funds being used in this manner we make everyone in the nemisis block a "share holder" of the fund who then receives dividends, we would over time be returning the funds to the community while in the mean time shoving a rocket up the nem ecosystems ass to propel nem into the big leagues.

if this fund had a large amount of stakes set aside for it from the unclaimed, it would be very well funded and most likely help many nem start ups hugely and get lots done while also bringing a return on investment nemsters would benefit from the dividends AND the huge boost to the eco system that such a fund could bring. if the fund was to be VERY well funded or starts making good profit early on we could set aside x% of the profit every month to go towards paying a dev to do a certain job or put out a bounty for something that may not bring a financial return on investment but would benefit nem greatly. the potential with something like this would be HUGE. businesses would pop up around nem in no time and before we know there would be a bustling eco system exploding into life.

im curious what the other devs think of this idea?


great idea


This is a good idea. Perhaps to make it more interesting, since this is not a "purchase of equity", it short cuts a lot of legality!!

Community members are gifted with spare coins who collectively agree to it being put in a coffer to invest in NEM related projects.

Later when NEM AE is up and running, this gift can be tokenized. These tokens can in turn be sold in the AE. Sounds good!!

When there is profits from investment, if any, these can be distributed to the bearer of the token.

I think there are lot more things that can be done too. I've already thought of how with this we can also do branding. ;)
#49


every nemster could get "nem investment fund" asset and then everyone could decide what they want to do (keep it or sell)


How about giving every one who holds NEM a bonus from the investment profits, depending on the number of coins they hold on a certain date every month/week.
This will avoid dumping too.


thats what the tokens would do. everyone in the nemises would get x amount of tokens depending on the coins they receive in the genisis and then profits would be given to nemsters in the form of dividends based on how many tokens they have. we need to issue shares because some people will want to sell theirs and others who are not in the genisis block will want to buy. with out shares it wont work.

in order to reduce dumping we could use x% of the capital the fund holds to place a NAV buy wall. this gives investors assurances that they can buy in and will, if needs be, be able to cash out with out too much slippage. it would just give the market confidence and most likely the NAV buy wall would not get eaten seeing as others would put buy orders in front of it unless something drastic happened.

in the end all nemsters would get a percentage of the profits from the fund every month based on the amount of tokens they hold and they would be given tokens based on how many coins they were given in the nemisis block.

not to mention, the price of the asset would follow the value of its holdings and seeing as the fund would hold a shed load of nem, if nem rises in value so will the value of the tokens. so by holding the assets you are indirectly investing in nem. this would also reduce duming of tokens.
#50



every nemster could get "nem investment fund" asset and then everyone could decide what they want to do (keep it or sell)


How about giving every one who holds NEM a bonus from the investment profits, depending on the number of coins they hold on a certain date every month/week.
This will avoid dumping too.


thats what the shares would do. everyone in the nemises would get x amount of shares depending on the coins they receive in the genisis and then profits would be given to nemsters in the form of dividends based on how many shares they have. we need to issue shares because some people will want to sell theirs and others who are not in the genisis block will want to buy. with out shares it wont work.

in order to reduce dumping we could use x% of the capital the fund holds to place a NAV buy wall. this gives investors assurances that they can buy in and will, if needs be, be able to cash out with out too much slippage. it would just give the market confidence and most likely the NAV buy wall would not get eaten seeing as others would put buy orders in front of it unless something drastic happened.

in the end all nemsters would get a percentage of the profits from the fund every month based on the amount of shares they hold and they would be given shares based on how many coins they were given in the nemisis block.

not to mention, the price of the asset would follow the value of its holdings and seeing as the fund would hold a shed load of nem, if nem rises in value so will the value of the asset. so by holding the assets you are indirectly investing in nem. this would also reduce duming of shares.


I would call it tokens for now. ;)
#51

fixed. :slight_smile:

#52



No offense but imho that's the worst route to go.
We need to spread NEM wide and far and not give more to the people that already have a lot of it.


I agree with this. I'd much rather see the leftover stakes go towards funding public projects for the NEM infrastructure. Encouraging growth is far, far more important then seeing more wealth get centralized into the (albeit many) hands that initially participated in the NEM distribution.

In order for POI to reach it's potential, people need to be encouraged to spend and earn NEM, this isn't going to happen if people arn't given a chance to actually spend it on goods or services. All NEM is going to be, especially in it's infancy, is just a potential dump or panic buy on exchanges up until this is accomplished.

Lets be honest; Bitcoins real value stemmed from it's underground trades on the dark/deep web, it's this sort of activity that gave it value which gave it the public spotlight it needed - just goes to show that compliance is oftentimes self-sacrificing.

If Bitcoin had nothing to do with the deep net -- and did everything it could to be legal and compliant with all nation laws -- it would've turned to dust long ago.



I agree that Bitcoin initially gained traction as a store of value because of its ability to be used in shady underground deals, but I don't think that is the only way a crypto currency can draw value and actually become a real currency. Below is a comment I made on a different post talking about how Bitcoin (or NEM in this case can get past the tipping point)


-------------------------

To me the most logical cases follow 2 scenarios.

1. Bitcoin becomes really good at international payments. A person will receive bitcoins from overseas and because Bitcions are sitting in a person's wallet and instead of cashing them out for cash, a person just spends them online and saves a bit in fees and exchange rates.  Spending bitcoin directly is better than trading bitcoin to fiat for a fee and then spending the fiat.  Especially now that a few services are even offering discounts for bitcoin. 

2. The undocumented, illegal, and unbanked start getting paid in Bitcoin and then spending it.

Illegal - Part of bitcoins original growth came from illegal sells on the Silk Road. Some of this similar activity might further Bitcoin.  Maybe Open Bazaar? But there are other options.


Pretty much this.

I also recently read an article that is just one of many on this subject:

http://www.coindesk.com/serbias-bitcoin-community-pledges-response-central-bank-warning/

In my honest opinion, established FIAT middle men and banks will do their utmost to ignore, downplay or otherwise smear crypto's at any given turn - honest/legal coins or not, and thus The further "underground" they'll be driven to survive. I genuinely do not believe any coin that does not have a market (legal or not) is ever going to last - all the more reason why seeing nem get widely distributed, and projects funded should be a priority (And so far, has been).

The FIAT world is strictly controlled and manipulated, often at the expense of citizens - they are not going to surrender those powers without fighting.
#53




No offense but imho that's the worst route to go.
We need to spread NEM wide and far and not give more to the people that already have a lot of it.


I agree with this. I'd much rather see the leftover stakes go towards funding public projects for the NEM infrastructure. Encouraging growth is far, far more important then seeing more wealth get centralized into the (albeit many) hands that initially participated in the NEM distribution.

In order for POI to reach it's potential, people need to be encouraged to spend and earn NEM, this isn't going to happen if people arn't given a chance to actually spend it on goods or services. All NEM is going to be, especially in it's infancy, is just a potential dump or panic buy on exchanges up until this is accomplished.

Lets be honest; Bitcoins real value stemmed from it's underground trades on the dark/deep web, it's this sort of activity that gave it value which gave it the public spotlight it needed - just goes to show that compliance is oftentimes self-sacrificing.

If Bitcoin had nothing to do with the deep net -- and did everything it could to be legal and compliant with all nation laws -- it would've turned to dust long ago.



I agree that Bitcoin initially gained traction as a store of value because of its ability to be used in shady underground deals, but I don't think that is the only way a crypto currency can draw value and actually become a real currency. Below is a comment I made on a different post talking about how Bitcoin (or NEM in this case can get past the tipping point)


-------------------------

To me the most logical cases follow 2 scenarios.

1. Bitcoin becomes really good at international payments. A person will receive bitcoins from overseas and because Bitcions are sitting in a person's wallet and instead of cashing them out for cash, a person just spends them online and saves a bit in fees and exchange rates.  Spending bitcoin directly is better than trading bitcoin to fiat for a fee and then spending the fiat.  Especially now that a few services are even offering discounts for bitcoin. 

2. The undocumented, illegal, and unbanked start getting paid in Bitcoin and then spending it.

Illegal - Part of bitcoins original growth came from illegal sells on the Silk Road. Some of this similar activity might further Bitcoin.  Maybe Open Bazaar? But there are other options.


Pretty much this.

I also recently read an article that is just one of many on this subject:

http://www.coindesk.com/serbias-bitcoin-community-pledges-response-central-bank-warning/

In my honest opinion, established FIAT middle men and banks will do their utmost to ignore, downplay or otherwise smear crypto's at any given turn - honest/legal coins or not, and thus The further "underground" they'll be driven to survive. I genuinely do not believe any coin that does not have a market (legal or not) is ever going to last - all the more reason why seeing nem get widely distributed, and projects funded should be a priority (And so far, has been).

The FIAT world is strictly controlled and manipulated, often at the expense of citizens - they are not going to surrender those powers without fighting.


and thats why we need to strip them of their powers. give back to the people. and the best way we can do this is by making their most powerful weapon, the fiat money system, defunct. nem needs to go viral, and we will probably need a collapse of the monetary system to the point of countries needing bail outs and not just banks, before nem could do this, but it is possible. however we need to shove some rocket fuel up this eco systems ass. and this fund might just be the thing that helps tip nem over the edge into viral territory. ;)
#54





No offense but imho that's the worst route to go.
We need to spread NEM wide and far and not give more to the people that already have a lot of it.


I agree with this. I'd much rather see the leftover stakes go towards funding public projects for the NEM infrastructure. Encouraging growth is far, far more important then seeing more wealth get centralized into the (albeit many) hands that initially participated in the NEM distribution.

In order for POI to reach it's potential, people need to be encouraged to spend and earn NEM, this isn't going to happen if people arn't given a chance to actually spend it on goods or services. All NEM is going to be, especially in it's infancy, is just a potential dump or panic buy on exchanges up until this is accomplished.

Lets be honest; Bitcoins real value stemmed from it's underground trades on the dark/deep web, it's this sort of activity that gave it value which gave it the public spotlight it needed - just goes to show that compliance is oftentimes self-sacrificing.

If Bitcoin had nothing to do with the deep net -- and did everything it could to be legal and compliant with all nation laws -- it would've turned to dust long ago.



I agree that Bitcoin initially gained traction as a store of value because of its ability to be used in shady underground deals, but I don't think that is the only way a crypto currency can draw value and actually become a real currency. Below is a comment I made on a different post talking about how Bitcoin (or NEM in this case can get past the tipping point)


-------------------------

To me the most logical cases follow 2 scenarios.

1. Bitcoin becomes really good at international payments. A person will receive bitcoins from overseas and because Bitcions are sitting in a person's wallet and instead of cashing them out for cash, a person just spends them online and saves a bit in fees and exchange rates.  Spending bitcoin directly is better than trading bitcoin to fiat for a fee and then spending the fiat.  Especially now that a few services are even offering discounts for bitcoin. 

2. The undocumented, illegal, and unbanked start getting paid in Bitcoin and then spending it.

Illegal - Part of bitcoins original growth came from illegal sells on the Silk Road. Some of this similar activity might further Bitcoin.  Maybe Open Bazaar? But there are other options.


Pretty much this.

I also recently read an article that is just one of many on this subject:

http://www.coindesk.com/serbias-bitcoin-community-pledges-response-central-bank-warning/

In my honest opinion, established FIAT middle men and banks will do their utmost to ignore, downplay or otherwise smear crypto's at any given turn - honest/legal coins or not, and thus The further "underground" they'll be driven to survive. I genuinely do not believe any coin that does not have a market (legal or not) is ever going to last - all the more reason why seeing nem get widely distributed, and projects funded should be a priority (And so far, has been).

The FIAT world is strictly controlled and manipulated, often at the expense of citizens - they are not going to surrender those powers without fighting.


and thats why we need to strip them of their powers. give back to the people. and the best way we can do this is by making their most powerful weapon, the fiat money system, defunct. nem needs to go viral, and we will probably need a collapse of the monetary system to the point of countries needing bail outs and not just banks, before nem could do this, but it is possible. however we need to shove some rocket fuel up this eco systems ass. and this fund might just be the thing that helps tip nem over the edge into viral territory. ;)


I'd take two steps back, usurp and engulf them and mix with the rocket fuel to give it more fire power. ;)

We need to work with the enemy to gain the upper hand. We cannot fight them too easily as they have guns.
#55

NEM Raison D'etre

There seems to be an interesting ongoing discussion regarding the unclaimed stakes.

I think we get far too easily carried away and decide on important things without putting some serious thought in their possible outcomes. In fact it often seems the most effective way to make important decisions is not to start from the point where we find ourselves at, but instead from the desired outcome, as if it had already happened, and reverse-engineer things from there, attempting to see what needed to have happened in order for us to get there. As Paul Graham put it, you have to "live in the future and build what's missing".

At the moment I think all the talk about getting more people into NEM and spreading NEM is somewhat misguided. Not because this is an undesirable thing, quite the contrary, it is rather because "more people coming to NEM" and "spreading NEM" happens as an effect of NEM having an obvious and unique utility which adds value to their life. Now, what is the reason d'etre for NEM? What is our native app? What do we offer that people love? What is our target or final purpose? I think these are some very important questions to ask ourselves. In fact as we approach beta and official launch, it may be the right moment to think about how NEM could move forward and become a real and novel economy, the premiere technological platform to build on and a very useful product which people would love.

When looking at the version of the future where NEM has succeeded, it becomes obvious that NEM has had to meet some necessary, though maybe not sufficient, conditions in order to achieve it. One of these conditions is without a doubt, speed of development. We are at a point in time where things evolve with increasing speed, and crypto is an ever changing field; in this context NEM finds itself on the cutting edge of the wave. We are setting now the foundation for the things to come and have a pretty good shot to become the "dominant species" if and only if we manage to act in a swiftly manner.

Our dev team has done a fantastic job up until now, putting an enormous amount of time, energy and effort into bringing NEM where it is today. Though as most of us here, they are quite limited in their resources, having day jobs and a whole lot of other things to take care of. Now think about if for a second, wouldn't it be great if at launch, we could assemble the most robust and agile full time development team in crypto? What if we would use our current position to run NEM at least for one year as a decentralized hybrid startup? When I say startup, I mean it as the most productive economic entity, trying to reach our target at full speed, in the most effective manner. What results would we be able to achieve if we would shift our view from asking "how can I get more NEM" to "what is the most effective way to reach our target in time with the given resources"?

Imagine how fast we could move forward if we would find a way to get our dev team to join full time. In addition to that, think how much better the team would be if we would also have someone full time on marketing, working side by side with a growth hacker to ensure effective and valuable ways to add new NEMsters. Some of the most essential qualities of a startup are speed and growth, if we would unite and pledge the needed resources to solve these two important problems, I have no doubt a lot of people would hear about NEM, and would start using NEM, and would love NEM, because before that, we would have created an insanely awesome NEM product. At least this is how a version of the future looks where NEM has already succeeded. 

In addition to all that, I think such a strategic move would naturally increase the value of NEM more than any other option and would also give NEM a real shot at becoming what it was meant for.

P.S. I do agree with conclusion of [url=http://avc.com/2014/10/bitcoin-price-and-promise/]this article and will quote it here, it should serve as a good lesson of what I am speaking about:

"The market price of an asset in the short term is driven by emotion (greed vs fear), liquidity, technical factors, and a bunch of other things. Right now, those factors are driving down the price of Bitcoin. Last year they drove it up.

I continue to believe that the thing to watch is not the price chart, the volume chart, or any chart. The thing to look at is Github, Hackathons, Accelerators, and everywhere else that entrepreneurs and developers showcase their work. That

#56

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but would be nice to have code auditing bounties to prevent any exploitation of existing open source code (NIS wise, NCC wouldn't matter much). BTC had the maleability exploit that caused a burn in Bitcoin image, for example, that wasn't patched for years.

Like the hype tha BCX did with Monero, claiming to have a "coin killer" exploit that could wipe monero to oblivion. Peer reviewed code is important, but serious people and companies never do it for free :wink:

#57

NEM's Reason D'etre

There seems to be an interesting ongoing discussion regarding the unclaimed stakes.

I think we get far too easily carried away and decide on important things without putting some serious thought in their possible outcomes. In fact it often seems the most effective way to make important decisions is not to start from the point where we find ourselves at, but instead from the desired outcome, as if it had already happened, and reverse-engineer things from there, attempting to see what needed to have happened in order for us to get there. As Paul Graham put it, you have to "live in the future and build what's missing".

At the moment I think all the talk about getting more people into NEM and spreading NEM is somewhat misguided. Not because this is an undesirable thing, quite the contrary, it is rather because "more people coming to NEM" and "spreading NEM" happens as an effect of NEM having an obvious and unique utility which adds value to their life. Now, what is the reason d'etre for NEM? What is our native app? What do we offer that people love? What is our target or final purpose? I think these are some very important questions to ask ourselves. In fact as we approach beta and official launch, it may be the right moment to think about how NEM could move forward and become a real and novel economy, the premiere technological platform to build on and a very useful product which people would love.

When looking at the version of the future where NEM has succeeded, it becomes obvious that NEM has had to meet some necessary, though maybe not sufficient, conditions in order to achieve it. One of these conditions is without a doubt, speed of development. We are at a point in time where things evolve with increasing speed, and crypto is an ever changing field; in this context NEM finds itself on the cutting edge of the wave. We are setting now the foundation for the things to come and have a pretty good shot to become the "dominant species" if and only if we manage to act in a swiftly manner.

Our dev team has done a fantastic job up until now, putting an enormous amount of time, energy and effort into bringing NEM where it is today. Though as most of us here, they are quite limited in their resources, having day jobs and a whole lot of other things to take care of. Now think about if for a second, wouldn't it be great if at launch, we could assemble the most robust and agile full time development team in crypto? What if we would use our current position to run NEM at least for one year as a decentralized hybrid startup? When I say startup, I mean it as the most productive economic entity, trying to reach our target at full speed, in the most effective manner. What results would we be able to achieve if we would shift our view from asking "how can I get more NEM" to "what is the most effective way to reach our target in time with the given resources"?

Imagine how fast we could move forward if we would find a way to get our dev team to join full time. In addition to that, think how much better the team would be if we would also have someone full time on marketing, working side by side with a growth hacker to ensure effective and valuable ways to add new NEMsters. Some of the most essential qualities of a startup are speed and growth, if we would unite and pledge the needed resources to solve these two important problems, I have no doubt a lot of people would hear about NEM, and would start using NEM, and would love NEM, because before that, we would have created an insanely awesome NEM product. At least this is how a version of the future looks where NEM has already succeeded. 

In addition to all that, I think such a strategic move would naturally increase the value of NEM more than any other option and would also give NEM a real shot at becoming what it was meant for.

P.S. I do agree with conclusion of [url=http://avc.com/2014/10/bitcoin-price-and-promise/]this article and will quote it here, it should serve as a good lesson of what I am speaking about:

"The market price of an asset in the short term is driven by emotion (greed vs fear), liquidity, technical factors, and a bunch of other things. Right now, those factors are driving down the price of Bitcoin. Last year they drove it up.

I continue to believe that the thing to watch is not the price chart, the volume chart, or any chart. The thing to look at is Github, Hackathons, Accelerators, and everywhere else that entrepreneurs and developers showcase their work. That
#58


NEM's Reason D'etre

There seems to be an interesting ongoing discussion regarding the unclaimed stakes.

I think we get far too easily carried away and decide on important things without putting some serious thought in their possible outcomes. In fact it often seems the most effective way to make important decisions is not to start from the point where we find ourselves at, but instead from the desired outcome, as if it had already happened, and reverse-engineer things from there, attempting to see what needed to have happened in order for us to get there. As Paul Graham put it, you have to "live in the future and build what's missing".

At the moment I think all the talk about getting more people into NEM and spreading NEM is somewhat misguided. Not because this is an undesirable thing, quite the contrary, it is rather because "more people coming to NEM" and "spreading NEM" happens as an effect of NEM having an obvious and unique utility which adds value to their life. Now, what is the reason d'etre for NEM? What is our native app? What do we offer that people love? What is our target or final purpose? I think these are some very important questions to ask ourselves. In fact as we approach beta and official launch, it may be the right moment to think about how NEM could move forward and become a real and novel economy, the premiere technological platform to build on and a very useful product which people would love.

When looking at the version of the future where NEM has succeeded, it becomes obvious that NEM has had to meet some necessary, though maybe not sufficient, conditions in order to achieve it. One of these conditions is without a doubt, speed of development. We are at a point in time where things evolve with increasing speed, and crypto is an ever changing field; in this context NEM finds itself on the cutting edge of the wave. We are setting now the foundation for the things to come and have a pretty good shot to become the "dominant species" if and only if we manage to act in a swiftly manner.

Our dev team has done a fantastic job up until now, putting an enormous amount of time, energy and effort into bringing NEM where it is today. Though as most of us here, they are quite limited in their resources, having day jobs and a whole lot of other things to take care of. Now think about if for a second, wouldn't it be great if at launch, we could assemble the most robust and agile full time development team in crypto? What if we would use our current position to run NEM at least for one year as a decentralized hybrid startup? When I say startup, I mean it as the most productive economic entity, trying to reach our target at full speed, in the most effective manner. What results would we be able to achieve if we would shift our view from asking "how can I get more NEM" to "what is the most effective way to reach our target in time with the given resources"?

Imagine how fast we could move forward if we would find a way to get our dev team to join full time. In addition to that, think how much better the team would be if we would also have someone full time on marketing, working side by side with a growth hacker to ensure effective and valuable ways to add new NEMsters. Some of the most essential qualities of a startup are speed and growth, if we would unite and pledge the needed resources to solve these two important problems, I have no doubt a lot of people would hear about NEM, and would start using NEM, and would love NEM, because before that, we would have created an insanely awesome NEM product. At least this is how a version of the future looks where NEM has already succeeded. 

In addition to all that, I think such a strategic move would naturally increase the value of NEM more than any other option and would also give NEM a real shot at becoming what it was meant for.

P.S. I do agree with conclusion of [url=http://avc.com/2014/10/bitcoin-price-and-promise/]this article and will quote it here, it should serve as a good lesson of what I am speaking about:

"The market price of an asset in the short term is driven by emotion (greed vs fear), liquidity, technical factors, and a bunch of other things. Right now, those factors are driving down the price of Bitcoin. Last year they drove it up.

I continue to believe that the thing to watch is not the price chart, the volume chart, or any chart. The thing to look at is Github, Hackathons, Accelerators, and everywhere else that entrepreneurs and developers showcase their work. That
#59

If we take the extra money and put it in a fund to support development and then shares are paid to the original stakeholders, then eventually all the money will be gone and no more bonus for developers. 

If you want development, figure out a way to make development continual.  A sustainable model would mean that shares from the new apps are eventually returned back to the original fund, the profit from those shares can then used again to fund another project, and once that one comes to fruition and makes the foundation richer, then that money can be used to fund another project and so on.

This is the difference between one cycle of development and then the stakeholders just get richer verses multiple rounds of development and the ecosystem gets richer. 

I lived in one of the poorest countries in Africa for two years in a poor village.  I have seen with my own eyes how bootstrapping one round of development leads to entropy and failure, where as making a system that is designed to last and last actually brings real growth. 

The old adage of "give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime is so true".  I watched as UN food aid was delivered to villages of people without food.  They ate it and when it ran out, they were no better off.  What was really needed to be done was have somebody deliver seeds and farming equipment and teach them sustainable farming practices, but that doesn't make nearly as good TV commercials as being the hero and delivering big bags of food to hungry kids.  Ultimately in the long run, that food does nothing. 

Having a scheme where initial stakeholders end up with more shares doesn't do anything in the long run for the NEM ecosystem. Having a scheme that is meant to encourage the ecosystem time after time will in a sustainable method will. 

The problem with this kind of method of microloans or IMF style of lending altered to be a kickstarter program for the NEM ecosystem is the Bluemeanie problem.  What if we give people NEM, and then they just run with it.  That is indeed a real problem. 

One possible solution would be if the programs that are being supported have "shares" as originally proposed, then offer bounties for interesting ideas, but upon delivery of the bounty a certain percentage of shares in the program will be promised back to the foundation.  This way the foundation funds are replenished and then later bounties can be offered. 

#60


I am pessimistic. Don't think people will vote for that in NEM though. But on a brighter note, most people who disagree are in the minority. We can therefore discount that.

By the way, that is centralized thoughts. Again, that is not what most of the 6 million crypto enthusiasts want as well.

As for me, there needs to be centralization before decentralization can happen. Even then, decentralization should still be an important element, i.e., there is no such thing as fully decentralized.

In any case, I doubt the dev would want to be employed in the open.


This is not a question of pleasing anyone, rather it is a simple matter of moving closer to the aimed goal.

I also think it should be obvious to everyone that it is of utmost priority to get the development side to move at full speed. Everything else is secondary. If we manage to get that, we'll have a good chance to build something great upon it, if we don't, well that's another story.