I'd like to point out that cmc is only displaying the funds that are distributed. E.g. NODE devs kept 40%so only 60% of NODEs are showing up on CNC.
They seem to have gone full retard.
If we take the extra money and put it in a fund to support development and then shares are paid to the original stakeholders, then eventually all the money will be gone and no more bonus for developers.
If you want development, figure out a way to make development continual. A sustainable model would mean that shares from the new apps are eventually returned back to the original fund, the profit from those shares can then used again to fund another project, and once that one comes to fruition and makes the foundation richer, then that money can be used to fund another project and so on.
This is the difference between one cycle of development and then the stakeholders just get richer verses multiple rounds of development and the ecosystem gets richer.
I lived in one of the poorest countries in Africa for two years in a poor village. I have seen with my own eyes how bootstrapping one round of development leads to entropy and failure, where as making a system that is designed to last and last actually brings real growth.
The old adage of "give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime is so true". I watched as UN food aid was delivered to villages of people without food. They ate it and when it ran out, they were no better off. What was really needed to be done was have somebody deliver seeds and farming equipment and teach them sustainable farming practices, but that doesn't make nearly as good TV commercials as being the hero and delivering big bags of food to hungry kids. Ultimately in the long run, that food does nothing.
Having a scheme where initial stakeholders end up with more shares doesn't do anything in the long run for the NEM ecosystem. Having a scheme that is meant to encourage the ecosystem time after time will in a sustainable method will.
The problem with this kind of method of microloans or IMF style of lending altered to be a kickstarter program for the NEM ecosystem is the Bluemeanie problem. What if we give people NEM, and then they just run with it. That is indeed a real problem.
One possible solution would be if the programs that are being supported have "shares" as originally proposed, then offer bounties for interesting ideas, but upon delivery of the bounty a certain percentage of shares in the program will be promised back to the foundation. This way the foundation funds are replenished and then later bounties can be offered.
The fund would be regenerative. It would invest into companies in order to make a profit so that we can continuously grow the base capital that it is in control of. It would also make profit from dividends that it gets from owning shares of companies. A small percentage would go to reinvesting aswell. Probably a slightly larger percentage at the start to help build up the amount of capital it commands faster which would lead to greater profits further down the line. The majority of profit would be paid out to nemsters. So this would allow for continuous development like you have mentioned and not just a short term thing.
Of course there will be risks of people running with the money but if we are careful in our decision making things should run smoothly. If the fund were to make a large amount of profit we could begin giving grants for development and investing in things that don't have a direct financial gain but would bring benefits to the nem eco system.
If we take the extra money and put it in a fund to support development and then shares are paid to the original stakeholders, then eventually all the money will be gone and no more bonus for developers.
If you want development, figure out a way to make development continual. A sustainable model would mean that shares from the new apps are eventually returned back to the original fund, the profit from those shares can then used again to fund another project, and once that one comes to fruition and makes the foundation richer, then that money can be used to fund another project and so on.
This is the difference between one cycle of development and then the stakeholders just get richer verses multiple rounds of development and the ecosystem gets richer.
I lived in one of the poorest countries in Africa for two years in a poor village. I have seen with my own eyes how bootstrapping one round of development leads to entropy and failure, where as making a system that is designed to last and last actually brings real growth.
The old adage of "give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime is so true". I watched as UN food aid was delivered to villages of people without food. They ate it and when it ran out, they were no better off. What was really needed to be done was have somebody deliver seeds and farming equipment and teach them sustainable farming practices, but that doesn't make nearly as good TV commercials as being the hero and delivering big bags of food to hungry kids. Ultimately in the long run, that food does nothing.
Having a scheme where initial stakeholders end up with more shares doesn't do anything in the long run for the NEM ecosystem. Having a scheme that is meant to encourage the ecosystem time after time will in a sustainable method will.
The problem with this kind of method of microloans or IMF style of lending altered to be a kickstarter program for the NEM ecosystem is the Bluemeanie problem. What if we give people NEM, and then they just run with it. That is indeed a real problem.
One possible solution would be if the programs that are being supported have "shares" as originally proposed, then offer bounties for interesting ideas, but upon delivery of the bounty a certain percentage of shares in the program will be promised back to the foundation. This way the foundation funds are replenished and then later bounties can be offered.
The fund would be regenerative. It would invest into companies in order to make a profit so that we can continuously grow the base capital that it is in control of. It would also make profit from dividends that it gets from owning shares of companies. A small percentage would go to reinvesting aswell. Probably a slightly larger percentage at the start to help build up the amount of capital it commands faster which would lead to greater profits further down the line. The majority of profit would be paid out to nemsters. So this would allow for continuous development like you have mentioned and not just a short term thing.
Of course there will be risks of people running with the money but if we are careful in our decision making things should run smoothly. If the fund were to make a large amount of profit we could begin giving grants for development and investing in things that don't have a direct financial gain but would bring benefits to the nem eco system.
Am I correct in saying if there was 1800 registered stakes then there would be 1800 shares in this fund? This would be even better than a bonus in my opinion!!!!
If we take the extra money and put it in a fund to support development and then shares are paid to the original stakeholders, then eventually all the money will be gone and no more bonus for developers.
If you want development, figure out a way to make development continual. A sustainable model would mean that shares from the new apps are eventually returned back to the original fund, the profit from those shares can then used again to fund another project, and once that one comes to fruition and makes the foundation richer, then that money can be used to fund another project and so on.
This is the difference between one cycle of development and then the stakeholders just get richer verses multiple rounds of development and the ecosystem gets richer.
I lived in one of the poorest countries in Africa for two years in a poor village. I have seen with my own eyes how bootstrapping one round of development leads to entropy and failure, where as making a system that is designed to last and last actually brings real growth.
The old adage of "give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime is so true". I watched as UN food aid was delivered to villages of people without food. They ate it and when it ran out, they were no better off. What was really needed to be done was have somebody deliver seeds and farming equipment and teach them sustainable farming practices, but that doesn't make nearly as good TV commercials as being the hero and delivering big bags of food to hungry kids. Ultimately in the long run, that food does nothing.
Having a scheme where initial stakeholders end up with more shares doesn't do anything in the long run for the NEM ecosystem. Having a scheme that is meant to encourage the ecosystem time after time will in a sustainable method will.
The problem with this kind of method of microloans or IMF style of lending altered to be a kickstarter program for the NEM ecosystem is the Bluemeanie problem. What if we give people NEM, and then they just run with it. That is indeed a real problem.
One possible solution would be if the programs that are being supported have "shares" as originally proposed, then offer bounties for interesting ideas, but upon delivery of the bounty a certain percentage of shares in the program will be promised back to the foundation. This way the foundation funds are replenished and then later bounties can be offered.
The fund would be regenerative. It would invest into companies in order to make a profit so that we can continuously grow the base capital that it is in control of. It would also make profit from dividends that it gets from owning shares of companies. A small percentage would go to reinvesting aswell. Probably a slightly larger percentage at the start to help build up the amount of capital it commands faster which would lead to greater profits further down the line. The majority of profit would be paid out to nemsters. So this would allow for continuous development like you have mentioned and not just a short term thing.
Of course there will be risks of people running with the money but if we are careful in our decision making things should run smoothly. If the fund were to make a large amount of profit we could begin giving grants for development and investing in things that don't have a direct financial gain but would bring benefits to the nem eco system.
Am I correct in saying if there was 1800 registered stakes then there would be 1800 shares in this fund? This would be even better than a bonus in my opinion!!!!
I wouldn't say it would be that amount. Most likely the majority would be redistributed in some way. I think a stellar style distribution after launch could be done too. It all depends on how many unclaimed there are I think
Am I correct in saying if there was 1800 registered stakes then there would be 1800 shares in this fund? This would be even better than a bonus in my opinion!!!!
Who knows, maybe 5 million units each? You get to keep some and you get to sell some. You can trade them you know. ;-)
Am I correct in saying if there was 1800 registered stakes then there would be 1800 shares in this fund? This would be even better than a bonus in my opinion!!!!
Who knows, maybe 5 million units each? You get to keep some and you get to sell some. You can trade them you know. ;-)
Yes sure, what I meant was the amount of shares of the fund to be distributed equally to the amount of registered stakeholders.
I also think it should be obvious to everyone that it is of utmost priority to get the development side to move at full speed. Everything else is secondary. If we manage to get that, we'll have a good chance to build something great upon it, if we don't, well that's another story.
I couldn't agree more.
I also think it should be obvious to everyone that it is of utmost priority to get the development side to move at full speed. Everything else is secondary. If we manage to get that, we'll have a good chance to build something great upon it, if we don't, well that's another story.
I couldn't agree more.
I am happy to hear that from you. Your words have the most significance. Everything else is a matter of conjecture! ;)
What if x% of profit earned from the fund was earmarked to go towards dev expenditure? A certain % would be reinvested into the fund in order to boost growth, a few percent split between those running it which would only be fair, then the remainder split in a 30/20 to share holders and devs respectively. That way we could get the best of everything. I would also say a # of stakes should be set aside purely for dev work but it obviously won't last as long as it is need. It would however really kick development into high gear.
There are many ways however the most "democratic" and "straight" is
1) to delete all the unclaimed bonus stakes
1) divide them to all claimed stakes
Both ways are marked with the same 1) letter because they mean the same - the relative value of 1 stake will be still the same.
OR (evil and sly)
2) divide them to developers/kickstarters (look at 3)/any selected group only IF the NEM gets any milestone by hitting any price-step. e. g. At 0.1 cent per NEM give them X NEMs, at 1 cent per NEM give them Y NEMs bonus at 1 USD per NEM give them Z NEMs ;D
3) try to make a sponsorship for many kickstarter projects funded by NEM reserve made by that bonus. And vote for them using 1 vote per 1 NEM owned. Of course, these kickstarters will be asseted in NEMs and valued at normal exchanges so the value of projects funded by NEMs will arise (or tank) the value of 1 NEM at the free market.
4) Try to learn from any other successfull or failed projects - DOGE sponsored an olympic bobsled and it made a nice hype and medial interest. Free NEM "reserve" may do similar things but it needs a smart authority which will decide about it. Every project needs a leader. In NXT project there are some similar (almost theoretical) possibilities.
5) Try to make a central bank "a FED" but not owned by Rotschild and sionists but owned by NEMsters which will hold all the reserve NEMs, so 1 NEM held will be adequate to e. g. 0.8NEM from unclaimed stakes and use this reserve as an anchor for initial trading to stabilize the price. When it will go up, sell for USD/BTC/Reichsmark, when it will go too much down, buy back fiat cash. There are many more advanced and sofisticated ways how to use this "central bank". Bitcoin has no central reserve (central reserve doesnt mean being centrallized!) and also suffers from high volatility and it make it useless as a currency taken seriously.
These all ideas are only my 2 nemcents just for feeding you with ideas trying to be a beacon which enlightes you ;D ;D
There are many ways however the most "democratic" and "straight" is
1) to delete all the unclaimed bonus stakes
1) divide them to all claimed stakes
It's also the most shortsighted. Do you know what democratic means ?
proposal = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9158562#msg9158562
Your proposal:
The ratio split for each goal based on 900 unclaimed stakes
- Development - (400) 2:1 ratio split for payed devs(250) vrs bounties(150)
- Investing(fund that was proposed) - (200)
- Marketing (100)
- Re-distribution - (150) give away(50) and bonus for nemsters(100)
- Retaining some for late claimers (50) - expiration of this fund would be 3 months from the day of distribution, remainder to be split between the top 3 at the end of the 3 months.
I think the development should be taken out as I believe there are sufficient development reserves post V1.
What's most important at the end of the day is to build ecosystem projects to enhance the use of the NEM platform that should be put in place.
In other words to increase the Investment.
Although I would love redistribution because I also have an interest, but I am more inclined that we should forego this for the better use or NEM elsewhere, i.e., into marketing.
Keeping funds for 3 months is ok, but it has to be a first come first serve basis.
In short, my suggestion is that we use the funds ( no ratio yet and should be decided later when we see the final amount) for:
Investment
Marketing
Retention for 3 months and to distribute back to investment and Marketing in the proportions that they have been allocated.
Finally, I must warn that we SHOULD NOT initiate multiple projects and in all directions like Nxt. This not only create confusion and many unfinished projects, but it will also make the NEM platform a messy bazaar of junk solutions. The key to prudent investment is to do it properly and be involved with its progress. Not all will be successful, but the chance of success lies in the hands of the people in the panel. They have to be experienced themselves.
Although we cannot stop anyone from doing it, but the Investment management should be well guided not to fall into this trap.
Until now, I am confused what Nxt has to offer.
There are many ways however the most "democratic" and "straight" is
1) to delete all the unclaimed bonus stakes
1) divide them to all claimed stakes
Both ways are marked with the same 1) letter because they mean the same - the relative value of 1 stake will be still the same.
OR (evil and sly)
2) divide them to developers/kickstarters (look at 3)/any selected group only IF the NEM gets any milestone by hitting any price-step. e. g. At 0.1 cent per NEM give them X NEMs, at 1 cent per NEM give them Y NEMs bonus at 1 USD per NEM give them Z NEMs ;D
3) try to make a sponsorship for many kickstarter projects funded by NEM reserve made by that bonus. And vote for them using 1 vote per 1 NEM owned. Of course, these kickstarters will be asseted in NEMs and valued at normal exchanges so the value of projects funded by NEMs will arise (or tank) the value of 1 NEM at the free market.
4) Try to learn from any other successfull or failed projects - DOGE sponsored an olympic bobsled and it made a nice hype and medial interest. Free NEM "reserve" may do similar things but it needs a smart authority which will decide about it. Every project needs a leader. In NXT project there are some similar (almost theoretical) possibilities.
5) Try to make a central bank "a FED" but not owned by Rotschild and sionists but owned by NEMsters which will hold all the reserve NEMs, so 1 NEM held will be adequate to e. g. 0.8NEM from unclaimed stakes and use this reserve as an anchor for initial trading to stabilize the price. When it will go up, sell for USD/BTC/Reichsmark, when it will go too much down, buy back fiat cash. There are many more advanced and sofisticated ways how to use this "central bank". Bitcoin has no central reserve (central reserve doesnt mean being centrallized!) and also suffers from high volatility and it make it useless as a currency taken seriously.
These all ideas are only my 2 nemcents just for feeding you with ideas trying to be a beacon which enlightes you ;D ;D
I am not sure about 1,3,4 and 5. I would give them all a miss.
As for 2, I am also not sure if this works because developing a proper solution needs proper cashflow and not rely on the value or fate of something else to happen. What happens if the value of NEM doesn't reach the desired value. Wait forever? Does not make sense to me.
Point 2 was a devils joke 
proposal = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9158562#msg9158562
Finally, I must warn that we SHOULD NOT initiate multiple projects and in all directions like Nxt. This not only create confusion and many unfinished projects, but it will also make the NEM platform a messy bazaar of junk solutions. The key to prudent investment is to do it properly and be involved with its progress. Not all will be successful, but the chance of success lies in the hands of the people in the panel. They have to be experienced themselves.
Although we cannot stop anyone from doing it, but the Investment management should be well guided not to fall into this trap.
Until now, I am confused what Nxt has to offer.
I agree with this observation.
Hello fellow Nemsters!
First i'd like to introduce myself a little. I've been following the development of Nem very carefully all the way from the beginning. I'm just not much of a forum poster nor do i have skills in software development so i haven't been participating the way i feel i should have. However now with the distribution right around the corner and the discussion on how to use the possible unclaimed stakes going on i've decided to join the conversation.
First i'd like to say that the investment fund idea is the best i've seen so far. However i do not think the fund should aim to be profitable in the way of dividents and such. I feel we stakeholders already get enough Nem as is and increasing the amount in any artificial way would only work against Nem in the long run.
The profit the fund should bring us should come from making the Nem we already have more valuable not from us having more Nem.
To accomplish this i think the fund's aim should be in two things:
- The continual advancement of the Nem Ecosystem.
- Stimulating adoption by means of redistribution into the market.
Hence i propose: Nem Ecosystem Fund
The purpose of this fund would be in incentivizing new development in the Nem Ecosystem.
Every Nemster in the nemesis block would get a special token that gives them the right to have a say in the allocation of the Nem in the fund.
It could be like a crowdfunding platform where every tokenholder can pledge x amount of Nem in x amount of time in the fund towards the projects they think are most important or it could work by the current developers offering us different projects to vote on.
One of the major advantages of such a fund would be that people tend to come and go and development funds will run dry in time however establishing a system where people can crowdfund new development right from the get go would make sure that Nem development can go on infinitely. What i'm trying to say is that when the Nem in the fund eventually runs out we will already have a system in place where people can then use their own Nem to fund future development. This would also mean that all the Nem in the fund would eventually be distributed into the economy leading into a fully decentralized system.
These are just some of my ideas and i hope people will comment on them.
Also as this is my first post here i'd like to thank the community and everyone thats been working on Nem so far. Your work has been amazing!
It looks like the dream will be reality very soon.
Hello fellow Nemsters!
First i'd like to introduce myself a little. I've been following the development of Nem very carefully all the way from the beginning. I'm just not much of a forum poster nor do i have skills in software development so i haven't been participating the way i feel i should have. However now with the distribution right around the corner and the discussion on how to use the possible unclaimed stakes going on i've decided to join the conversation.
First i'd like to say that the investment fund idea is the best i've seen so far. However i do not think the fund should aim to be profitable in the way of dividents and such. I feel we stakeholders already get enough Nem as is and increasing the amount in any artificial way would only work against Nem in the long run.
The profit the fund should bring us should come from making the Nem we already have more valuable not from us having more Nem.
To accomplish this i think the fund's aim should be in two things:
- The continual advancement of the Nem Ecosystem.
- Stimulating adoption by means of redistribution into the market.
Hence i propose: Nem Ecosystem Fund
The purpose of this fund would be in incentivizing new development in the Nem Ecosystem.
Every Nemster in the nemesis block would get a special token that gives them the right to have a say in the allocation of the Nem in the fund.
It could be like a crowdfunding platform where every tokenholder can pledge x amount of Nem in x amount of time in the fund towards the projects they think are most important or it could work by the current developers offering us different projects to vote on.
One of the major advantages of such a fund would be that people tend to come and go and development funds will run dry in time however establishing a system where people can crowdfund new development right from the get go would make sure that Nem development can go on infinitely. What i'm trying to say is that when the Nem in the fund eventually runs out we will already have a system in place where people can then use their own Nem to fund future development. This would also mean that all the Nem in the fund would eventually be distributed into the economy leading into a fully decentralized system.
These are just some of my ideas and i hope people will comment on them.
Also as this is my first post here i'd like to thank the community and everyone thats been working on Nem so far. Your work has been amazing!
It looks like the dream will be reality very soon.
Easily one of the best posts I'v read in this forum. Glad you decided to finally join in.
Hello fellow Nemsters!
First i'd like to introduce myself a little. I've been following the development of Nem very carefully all the way from the beginning. I'm just not much of a forum poster nor do i have skills in software development so i haven't been participating the way i feel i should have. However now with the distribution right around the corner and the discussion on how to use the possible unclaimed stakes going on i've decided to join the conversation.
First i'd like to say that the investment fund idea is the best i've seen so far. However i do not think the fund should aim to be profitable in the way of dividents and such. I feel we stakeholders already get enough Nem as is and increasing the amount in any artificial way would only work against Nem in the long run.
The profit the fund should bring us should come from making the Nem we already have more valuable not from us having more Nem.
To accomplish this i think the fund's aim should be in two things:
- The continual advancement of the Nem Ecosystem.
- Stimulating adoption by means of redistribution into the market.
Hence i propose: Nem Ecosystem Fund
The purpose of this fund would be in incentivizing new development in the Nem Ecosystem.
Every Nemster in the nemesis block would get a special token that gives them the right to have a say in the allocation of the Nem in the fund.
It could be like a crowdfunding platform where every tokenholder can pledge x amount of Nem in x amount of time in the fund towards the projects they think are most important or it could work by the current developers offering us different projects to vote on.
One of the major advantages of such a fund would be that people tend to come and go and development funds will run dry in time however establishing a system where people can crowdfund new development right from the get go would make sure that Nem development can go on infinitely. What i'm trying to say is that when the Nem in the fund eventually runs out we will already have a system in place where people can then use their own Nem to fund future development. This would also mean that all the Nem in the fund would eventually be distributed into the economy leading into a fully decentralized system.
These are just some of my ideas and i hope people will comment on them.
Also as this is my first post here i'd like to thank the community and everyone thats been working on Nem so far. Your work has been amazing!
It looks like the dream will be reality very soon.
Easily one of the best posts I'v read in this forum. Glad you decided to finally join in.
I like the idea too. Each original stakeholder gets a token that represents a certain X amount of development funds. People with interesting projects that the community likes can ask for tokens, which can then be cashed in for NEM. This really lets the community decide the direction of the funds. It is like all the funds will be redistributed back to the original stakeholders (but not really). It is a win for original stakeholders because they feel like they are richer and get to give to charity. They are indeed giving away real NEM, just not NEM they could have cashed in themselves.
It is a wonderful idea.
Hello fellow Nemsters!
First i'd like to introduce myself a little. I've been following the development of Nem very carefully all the way from the beginning. I'm just not much of a forum poster nor do i have skills in software development so i haven't been participating the way i feel i should have. However now with the distribution right around the corner and the discussion on how to use the possible unclaimed stakes going on i've decided to join the conversation.
First i'd like to say that the investment fund idea is the best i've seen so far. However i do not think the fund should aim to be profitable in the way of dividents and such. I feel we stakeholders already get enough Nem as is and increasing the amount in any artificial way would only work against Nem in the long run.
The profit the fund should bring us should come from making the Nem we already have more valuable not from us having more Nem.
To accomplish this i think the fund's aim should be in two things:
- The continual advancement of the Nem Ecosystem.
- Stimulating adoption by means of redistribution into the market.
Hence i propose: Nem Ecosystem Fund
The purpose of this fund would be in incentivizing new development in the Nem Ecosystem.
Every Nemster in the nemesis block would get a special token that gives them the right to have a say in the allocation of the Nem in the fund.
It could be like a crowdfunding platform where every tokenholder can pledge x amount of Nem in x amount of time in the fund towards the projects they think are most important or it could work by the current developers offering us different projects to vote on.
One of the major advantages of such a fund would be that people tend to come and go and development funds will run dry in time however establishing a system where people can crowdfund new development right from the get go would make sure that Nem development can go on infinitely. What i'm trying to say is that when the Nem in the fund eventually runs out we will already have a system in place where people can then use their own Nem to fund future development. This would also mean that all the Nem in the fund would eventually be distributed into the economy leading into a fully decentralized system.
These are just some of my ideas and i hope people will comment on them.
Also as this is my first post here i'd like to thank the community and everyone thats been working on Nem so far. Your work has been amazing!
It looks like the dream will be reality very soon.
Easily one of the best posts I'v read in this forum. Glad you decided to finally join in.
I like the idea too. Each original stakeholder gets a token that represents a certain X amount of development funds. People with interesting projects that the community likes can ask for tokens, which can then be cashed in for NEM. This really lets the community decide the direction of the funds. It is like all the funds will be redistributed back to the original stakeholders (but not really). It is a win for original stakeholders because they feel like they are richer and get to give to charity. They are indeed giving away real NEM, just not NEM they could have cashed in themselves.
It is a wonderful idea.
Agreed! This would also take away a lot of the FUD that would come along with giving the dev team an additional 20%+ of all NEM (even if they weren't the ones who were going to use it).
But how would this be implemented? Would it take a lot of additional programming? Who would be in charge of holding the NEM that is tied to these tokans? And whose job would it be to handle it (send the NEM out etc)?