Right now there are ~10k accounts with a >10k balance and we have like 1 transaction per minute.
But what would harvesting “harvest” with a 10k account when we have e.g. 864000 tx/day or 10 tx/s? I mean, what would that mean approximately.
It depends on fees, importance and luck you have with finding blocks. We are far from 800k tx/day.
Today it’s about 5000 tx/day. I can calculate this when I will be at home.
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I guess all 10k accounts have the same importance and chance to “find” blocks??
Can you perhaps also show me how you calculate this?
No. Importance depends on how many coins you have, how long you have coins, how many transaction you do (outgoing transaction over 1000 XEM increase your importance).
Right now daily there is about 2000 transactions. Chart presenting this below (done using blockchain database data):
You can calculate also what is avarage transaction fee and transaction fees per block. But curently I don’t have time for this. Calculating chance to find block may be little bit complicated.
Let’s simplify we have 2000 transactions daily. We have also 1440 blocks per day (60 sec block).
If each transaction have 0.5 XEM fee (need verification) that’s mean that for all (10000) harvesters is ~ 1000 XEM daily.
Sorry, I am still lost… I am rephrasing my initial question.
Let’s say we have an account with the lowest importance necessary (10k vested, no transactions, etc.) to harvest. And right now we have 2000 tx/day, “1440 blocks per day” and 43200 blocks per month.
- How many blocks can our account assume to “find” right now?
- How many blocks can we expect to find when there is 1 transaction per second (86400 tx/day)?
- when I have 14k XEM I have couple (5 I guess) blocks in four months
- transactions count doesn’t change how often you find block because block count are always the same (1440 per day). It changes only how big reward in block is because it depends on transaction fees in block.
Okay, I get that part now.
And when (y)our account usually finds like ~1 block a month, what would that mean when having 1 tx/s, 2592000 tx/month and 60 tx/block? Would then finding a block end up in “harvesting” something worth mentioning? Or will fee reduction kick in to make sure that a single block is fee-wise always as cheap as possible?? (Which would make sense. I am just trying to figure out how things work here…)
If now avarage block fee is 4 XEM and only 2000 transaction per day that’s mean if it will be daily 45000 transaction avarage block reward will be ~90 XEM (if fees doesnt change).
Empty blocks (without transactions still falls) which is of course good:
You can also win on lottery and get rewards from blocks like this: http://explorer.ournem.com/#/s_block?height=1036181 (over 445000 XEM). This was clearlu user error because someone put amount in fee field.
I don’t think that, when e.g. a coin is worth 1 $, a block with 60 tx can make 90 XEM. I mean, every user would then pay 1.5 $ for a tx. Then again, and that’s why I am asking, when you find a block per month, and have 10k dollars money bounded, and a tx costs a decent 1 ct, then you perhaps just make 7.2 $ harvesting a year. Which is far less than a percent… And that’s why I am asking. Why should people without supernode have balance vested when that makes less money than inflation rate “destroys”?
The same question can I ask why people hold bitcoin or ethereum? If you buy 1 BTC and hold you have always 1 BTC. No additional satoshi flows. The reason why people invest and hold is because they believe in project and in that token value will increase. Harvesting is only nice additional feature.
Yeah, I guess I was mislead by that one guy who said that Bitcoin has mining where NEM has harvesting… And he said harvesting is one reason why NEM is awesome, because when it comes to Bitcoin nowadays just rich people can mine. Which is obviously true. And for harvesting in NEMland you just need 10k vested balance. Which is true, too. Still the dude was an idiot. Simply, because a single Microsoft stock makes more money a year than harvesting having 10k vested balance.
My personal opinion is that you probably paid more for your 15k XEM than the people paid for the 3 million coins you need for a supernode. Running a supernode today makes ~116800 XEM a year. That’s a nice additional feature of 3.89 % of 3 mio.
When you get 60 XEM per year for harvesting with a vested balance of 15k that’s a nice additional feature of 0.4 %!
If you don’t have questions here, that’s okay. I am just trying to figure out what to expect…
Yes, it’s true that I pay more for my coins than people having initial stack and can run supernode. But the same bitcoin on the beginning have very low value in fiat. Harvesting is nice feature but don’t give you big profits or small profits. Now it gives only some profits 
And maybe one day 15k will even make no profit at all:
If NEM becomes very popular, a threshold of 10,000 vested XEM could be undesirable. If necessary, this number could be updated in the future via a hard fork…
Guess, somewhat disappointing, harvesting without a supernode is more like a gimmick…
harvesting will be more profitable in the future, not less profitable.
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When someone owns 3000000 XEM you get precise informations what you will harvest. In June 2015 you could buy 3000000 coins for ~375 $.
When you buy 10k coins today you pay ~2200 $. But when I ask what exactly I will harvest, how I could calculate that (for my account), or what can be expected for the future, I get answers like: Maybe you are lucky, perhaps this, perhaps that, it’s just a nice feature, and “harvesting will be more profitable in the future”…
Do you get my point? I invested enough money to get a somewhat decent answer. (That’s at least how I see things…) Does “harvesting will be more profitable in the future” mean that the NEM foundation will change something in the future regarding delegated harvesting? Or are you trying to say, that I am just impatient, and the way things work currently, e.g. Pawel will get more than 0.4 % a year with his 15k coins anyway, when there are more transactions?
Yeah, I agree that harvesting now it’s not a big reason to invest. Just saying as a regular NEM investor. Precisely speaking it would be on my example 1% per year (5.15 XEM in ~ 4 months).
It means with more adoption, there will be more transactions, thus more harvesting rewards.
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We had already figured that out. But more transactions will, and that is good, because people need to want to use NEM, also mean more fee reductions.
Right now 15k harvest like 100 XEM or 20 $ a year. When a XEM is a dollar, and delegated harvesting with a 15k balance (after fee reduction) makes 50 $ dollars a year, then that’s more and less “harvesting rewards” at the same time.