WTF, it has nothing to do with being vindictive.
You don’t get it:
In the beginning NEM was just an idea that needed funding, hence the ICO (Initial Coin Offering) where they appealed the bitcointalk crowd for their “fair” distribution of stakeholders.
They get funded to develop NEM.
They develop NEM up to the point where it is functional enough.
They decide to fork NEM.
They move on to Mijin.
Mijin continues being developed for real world uses.
NEM becomes a testnet, POC, a basic framework and/or just abandonware.
If this scenario is real, we are being royally fucked. We were used and discarded.
We need clarification now.
Well there isn’t going to be any clarification because they can’t or won’t talk about it. It’s either trust them and wait for clarification or draw your conlusion and act accordingly.
I don’t get it indeed. In the beginning, NEM was just an idea and stakes were given on bitcointalk, This was not funding the initiative… That’s why I asked why you felt you had funded NEM, but you didn’t answer. So I still don’t get it…
NEM did not get funded per se. 100BTC was collected out of the exercise and this hardly could pay for about 15 people working on it in the initial days. They all basically worked for free. Most of it went to the UI/UX anyway.
These are conjectures:
My answers to the above:
As Mijin is developed, the code is ported to NEM. As Mijin evolves, the code is open sourced.
So, there is no abandonment. Only thing that Mijin can do and NEM cannot do is the transaction speed, and it is the limitation of a public network vs. a private network. Hence, a technical constraint.
I was told, the latest NEM testnet version has Mijin code in it. So, the concern is not an issue at this stage.
One thing we fail to realise is that we don’t own the devs. They are volunteers rewarded with XEM. Anyone can do the same and join the development team. As volunteers rewarded with bags full of XEM, it is only logical devs want to see the success of XEM.
But as armchair critiques, we have no right to impose upon them. Otherwise, if one is a techy, then volunteer to contribute and make NEM a better solution. The continuity and perpetuity of NEM cannot be relied upon a few people. That’s the reality.
As a founder of Dragonfly, I have more to worry than any of the concerns. I put in money, hard cash, to get going. I have never doubted the initiative and I fully understand the risk associated with any business. I believe, I have put in cash into the NEM project more significantly than anyone in NEM land.
For having put in an insignificant amount and demand full accountability as if one has heavily invested in it sounds like a troll to me.
We have trusted the devs thus far and they have never failed. They have proven themselves to be credible persons. We should not doubt their ability to further contribute to the project, no matter how obscure they are. They have always been obscure anyway. If ever they fail to deliver, we have only ourselves to blame for, as we doubted their sincerity to deliver.
Makoto is living on fresh air and sunshine now. You want to pay him money so that he can continue to serve NEM and be abused and doubted by people like you?
He showed me his cheap shit dinner at 10pm the other day. You want to pay him for a good meal and nourish his brain a bit?
“For having put in an insignificant amount and demand full accountability as if one has heavily invested in it sounds like a troll to me.”
You seem to consider that “Full accountability” is a privilege rather than a right, with that mentality you can’t seriously think about leading a startup. Really? will you seriously dismiss a small investor’s request on clarification or your angel investor in your venture? This is alarming.
Regardless of how much anyone put in this, any investor has the rights to know what happens.
You guys are becoming fanboys if you can’t objectively request full transparency in the project.
There was never an investment here. Did you get shares? You own NEM? Is there a NEM, Inc. that I missed out? Is there a corporate governance clause that says that those who work for NEM has a no compete clause? Was there any corporate governance at all?
Please don’t mix a corporation with an open source initiative that is done out of free will. If ever you have “invested” it was merely a contribution to a project.
Anyway, I shan’t waste my time talking about this. You can disagree, I have no qualms. If you have reason to doubt this, then, I advise that you should walk rather than to take the risk. Everything we do has an element of risk.
A congratulation to all who worked on this is appropriate. Sounds like big and good news, … although i’m sure i’m not able to anticipate or understand everything that’s going on.
But for NEM, after some thoughts, it all depends i guess. NEM, as a new economy movement, stated to do a lot of things better than a lot of other crypto initiatives in the past. NEM would do it right. In that context mijin does sound, i must say, not completely right. It is too much described as another initiative. Probably because it is another system, with another name, another logo and it will be creating other blockchains. It is too much different.
Every stakeholder who bought a NEMstake, we can call it an investment i guess, considers the stake to be a share in NEM. A share in the community project with the NEM software and the NEM block-chain being the core products.
When NEM is used, it should be done the right way as well: it should result in improvements of the NEM software itself and will result in XEM transactions somehow.
So what I would consider to be fair:
the mijin fork to be merged back into the NEM codebase, as a contribution back to the community. A permanent fork has to be avoided.
the original NEM blockchain should be used somehow in the mijin solution. For example to link a private mijin blockchain to another blockchain (private or public) or currency, if relevant. Would this be viable and is this feasible? Sounds like NEM would become a kind of supernet, oops, doesn’t it
Business is great. If profits are being made, great. Companies are looking for a competitive advantage. And that’s OK. But it should be avoided mijin will become different than NEM, or even worse, a competitor of NEM.
Instead, the cooperation between the public and the private blockchains should be built-in the system. In a system with a single codebase.
I hope it’s not too late and that will still be possible?
Mijins target a different market, therefore it has to be different to best cater to that market. By your logic every single altcoin should have to merge back into btc.
That does not give anyone any privilege or right to NEM. That’s for sure. There is no legal obligations from either side. If this is clear, then there is no issue. Still I don’t call it an investment. Few know the differences. Knowing little and knowing little about the rights or privileges can be dangerous. Buying XEM in hope that it will rise was a speculation on a commodity, not a share.
The achievements of the NEM devs and the community are tremendous and this should not be seen as bashing but rather as constructive feedback from an “outside” perspective. It remains to be seen what happens. People in cryptoland are (understandably) a bit jaded by all the false promises that many shitcoins have made. NEM was, and is, ambitious and different in many ways and it delivered so far. We shouldn’t even have to talk about “legal” stuff because that’s irrelevant in a project that has strong ethical beliefs at its core. Still, it’s good to have an open discussion about things like this and maybe provide a reality check. The fact that there isn’t really a lot of information on what’s happening and questions cannot be answered doesn’t help of course. Let’s hope for the best. This is not just a technological achievement, it’s the NEW Economy Movement, after all. So arguments about how stuff has been done in the past miss the point.
You’re telling us that mijin will NOT decrease the time that the core devs can invest to work on NEM ? I mean really work on NEM and not work on NEM by proxy i.e. working on mijin.
Up until now NEM has been a labor of love by dedicated devs. They have been paid exactly $0 for all their work, but have received nice bonuses of XEM, which they all hold as they think it will be more valuable someday.
They all have day jobs and have to work on NEM on the weekends and nights. If devs were to get a major bank or other company to give them a lot of money so the could quit their day jobs and work full time on Mijin (yes that is NEM too) then I am guessing that the pace of development for NEM might actually pick up. More devs might come on, or the devs we have now can focus better and have more resources to work from.
How many development teams have 4 paid devs working on code? uhmmmmmmm… only Bitcoin, and NEM is A LOT better platfrom to be building on then Bitcoin. For me personally, it is my hope that Mijin development lands NEM devs some good consulting work and even additional devs so we could get a team of 10 amazing devs working on NEM/Mijin. With a team like that and the clean code as a starting base that NEM is, I think NEM could easily take over as the number two blockchain and yes, maybe in many years, the number one too.
Imho it isn’t. It is in part, maybe even a great part but it is not 100% the same even if all of the work for mijin can be used by NEM as well (which is doubtfull I’d say).
My guess is that the Tech Bureau will decide - and rightfully so - what is and what isn’t being worked on. So NEM would be a mere side-product of mijin. The publicly available little cousin of mijin that may or may not get future developments depending on wether or not future mijin developments are compatiable.
I’m not against the devs working on mijin (and who’d care if I were) and the devs are of course free to do whatever they want. I’d totally understand them going down that road and hell I’d be happy for em.
But it does strike me as a bit fanboy-ish to forcibly spin this into a good thing for NEM when there are little to no details (prob for good reasons). Maybe all future developments for mijin are awesome and totally apply to NEM as well and everything will be hunky dory. But we don’t know what we don’t know.
No offense, you probably know more but from what I know this could go either way and people are justifiably concerned.
Yes there is some useful information about MIJIN. But the original question and purpose of this thread was:
I was just wondering what the community’s thoughts are on how NEM and
Mijin should be related. Are there any ideas on what you would like to
see?
And I think, the community-answer pretty much comes down to:
It would be nice to have a direct relationship between NEM and MIJIN, so that when MIJIN becomes a proprietary thing and takes off, NEM won’t be left out in the rain.
It’s not about negative effects to NEM (as there are no direct negative effects as far as I can see), but about the lack of positive effects.
The community’s fear is that NEM will lose its importance, once the chain is forked and “privatized”. Which is a legit concern, because that’s how the Old Economy often handles such situations when huge profits are looming on the horizon. Linux is a very good example.
I can see how NEM could (in theory) profit from the development of MIJIN, but as I said, there is no information about it.
This thread posed a question, and there is an answer. It’s up to the devs what they make of it.
Guess the question really is, will NEM go into oblivion without any commercialisation? Taking away commercialisation, I strongly believe that NEM will not stand a chance to survive in cryptoland. In fact, no coin will survive without the help of the old economy.
Libertarianism is an idealism, which, when put to the litmus test will fail miserably.
NEM is a platform. A platform is only a platform if we don’t building anything usable on it. NEM will forever remain a platform if we sit around and hope that it will turn out good.
The irony is, without it being a utilised, now or later, there will never be any value in NEM.
The bottom line to all this is that, it is not about doing more good things to NEM. It is about every little thing that will do good to NEM that will make NEM a success.
Mijin takes NEM one notch up. If we’ve got 100 such projects, then NEM will certainly have more good than bad.
It will be people like this who will use NEM without us knowing. And there will be more.
With more than 1 million downloads, eccube will take us up again WHEN they rollout the NEM engine in their solution, doesn’t matter whether it is Mijin or NEM. Fact is, it is a NEM engine. Knowing how to use a Mijin means one knows how to use NEM. It is the same thing with a different twist.
Will it not be better if we have 10,000 programmers, not from cryptoland, using NEM for a purpose? I let you be the judge.
No, I don’t think it is. This thread is dedicated specifically to the relationship between mijin and NEM. Noone is debating that NEM will need adoption in order to survive. We’re simply debating if mijin will have a positive imptact on NEM.
Is that so ? Because it looks to me like we’d have 100 such projects and NEM would still just be a platform.
Of course NEM needs commercialization. Just like Bitcoin needs it and any other project. Of course NEM needs programmers building on it and people using it. So, here is the chance for that! With a direct relationship between Mijin and NEM we would get:
Commercialization, the public blockchain used by major economic players
Programmers working on it and a spike in interest (we might get that anyway)
People actually using NEM, because they are using Mijin
And yeah, Mijin might do some good for NEM anyway. But could it do more? Yes.
Don’t you think it would be nice if someone who used the technology commercially gave something back to the community?
Will it not be better if we have 10,000 programmers, not from cryptoland, using NEM for a purpose?
Of course it would, no one doubted that. Again, I am not bashing Mijin. We are just discussing about how the positive effect on NEM could be maximized. I’m sorry I don’t get your point.
Couldn’t find any information about NEM on the eccube website. Where did you get that information?
