Mosaic 3rd party commission payment


#1

I have a specific need and am wondering if the following scenario is possible using NEM.

I would like to create a mosaic + namespace, and …
PAY ALL OF THE FEES ON BEHALF OF ALL THE USERS

I would like to be the one responsible for not only the annual NEM mosaic fee but also for all the transaction fees between random end users.

I would also need to be able to set a discount amount on all transactions, to pay for my efforts and the fees involved. This feature, I believe, is already implemented…

Here is what I have in mind.

I would issue the money, give it a value of (let’s say) $100 each - and be willing to always buy it back at that price. I would issue this currency to all subcontractors and suppliers that are owed money. As a first step, this would accomplish fool-proof bookkeeping. They can keep accumulating this currency, or cash out immediately. No need to keep track beyond issuing the owed amount.

Set a discount amount, for example, at 2% (pulling this number out of thin air, for now - but whatever this is an example), that money would, in reality, go back to me, to pay for the entirety of the project.

That way the end user could use the NEM wallet to pay for or exchange this new currency (really a NEM mosaic) with other people willing to take it. Each transaction would incur a 2% (again, or whatever it will end up being) discount, so a person with $100 worth of this currency would either be able to get $100 in cash (bank transfer from me) or transfer $100 to someone else, with the random recipient wallet now only getting $98 ($100 - 2%), with the 2% going to the namespace/mosaic admin. Operationally quite similar to a credit card transaction fee for the seller, basically.

What this would accomplish is that the currency would be liquid in the sense that I would always pay US$ for it for those who wanted to ‘cash out’, and yet portable, instant and quasi-anonymous for those who wanted to use crypto that does not fluctuate, as cash, without worrying about having to have yet another currency (NEM) in order to pay the transaction fees.

I would be paying everyone’s fees, knowing that in the end, the incurred transaction discount would pay for it.

This new crypto would always be the $100 or whatever is decided at the beginning and the transaction fee (the discount) would also probably be set for good.

I am thinking that if this was possible I would use it to pay numerous subcontractors and suppliers with this new artificially valuable (100% backed by me) currency and they could either cash out when they are ready and in need for cash or use it to pay for things between other users of this currency who are willing to accept it as payment, as they would know they can then cash out themselves or use it again to pay to someone else still, incurring a discount themselves.

Each and every transaction between users would incur the ‘discount fee’, not just the 1st one, of course. That way even if numerous transactions happen between users out there, there will always be enough to cover their transaction fees, in NEM, by me.

To break it down, these are the questions:
1) can I set the usage discount fee to go to me as the maintainer of the currency
2) can the end user (both buyer and seller) not have to worry about paying the fees themselves in NEM
3) who do I contact about this if this feature (3rd party commission payment) is not yet implemented

Hopefully, this is sufficiently and clearly explained, please let me know if I need to elaborate on anything further.

The key point in this whole thing is that the end user should not have to worry about getting NEM for payment of commissions. It needs to be as simple as possible. 1) get a wallet 2) transfer money easily 3) know up front the percentage it will cost to use 4) be able to cash out at any time.


Edit:

Since the NEM value may fluctuate in the future, can the discount/commission fee charged for between user transactions be made to be variable or can the mosaic admin change it periodically? This way, in case NEM goes up to $15,000 and with our currency being worth only a fixed non-changing $100, the actual NEM transaction fee could get overwhelming…

I think giving the admin the power to change the percentage discount fee on the mosaic transactions would solve this, but I don’t think that is possible with the current release…?

The more I think about this, the more this whole thing opens a can of worms.This would only work if the value of the actual NEM doesn’t go over a certain amount, otherwise, the fees (paid in inflated NEM vs a static percentage of $100 mosaic unit) would kill this… hmmmm


Namespace, Mosaic - how the fees are paid
#2

Technically all txs on the NEM network need XEM to pay tx fees. In basically all blockchains, this same problem exists in one way or the other, and few if any have any kind of solution that is simple and elegant.

We have good news and bad news for you.

  1. The good news. We can do exactly what you want but just in a different and probably better way.
  2. The bad news. It isn’t on this version of NEM but the next version called Catapult.

The feature is called aggregated txs, and it works by combining multiple txs into one tx.

So say Alice has CCS:Money_Token and she wasnt to send 100 to Bob. What would happen is you would make three txs rolled up into one tx. A) Alice sends Bob 98 CCS:Money_Token, B) Alice send you 2. C) you send Alice enough XEM to sponsor the tx fees.

In this case Alice never had XEM in her wallet and neither does Bob, but you can do the same type of Aggregate transaction for him too. You can customize it however you want and even make a fourth or fifth party in the trade.

You can read more here. https://nemtech.github.io/concepts/aggregate-transaction.html


#3

Thank you very much for the reply.

I am glad things are slowly evolving in this direction as well… Though, having three parties involved does complicate things quite a bit, even just organizing the payment, etc., and especially if the 3 parties have no previous relationship… I see it as growing pains.

Perhaps this coming Catapult is not yet going to be capable of auto-fee-payment by a 3rd party, but perhaps the following version, let’s call it “Booster” for now, may.

On the private, cash-backed mosaic… the best way would be to kind of be doing it the way I was proposing.

  1. charge a levy percentage on each transaction, a sort of credit card-like fee.
  2. have all XEM fees for these anonymous transactions be automatically paid from the admin’s XEM balance

The levy would generate (or free up, as in the CCS case) funds to be used to buy XEM to keep the admin’s XEM balance at whatever level in anticipation of upcoming automated transactions.

They US$ cash (to pay for the XEM) would be automatically generated by the levy on each transaction (the 2% or whatever automatically deducted), since this private mosaic would be 100% backed by cash in the first place.

What this would accomplish is that that random parties could pay with the private mosaic, without admin’s knowledge or any contact. It would be less of a headache to orchestrate numerous payments between parties, I mean, this could be a nightmare, to be the 3rd party XEM fee payer for who knows who for who knows how many transactions per day…

Can the preset transaction levy be changed, or is it set in stone at the time of creation of the mosaic? The way I understand it, currently it CANNOT be adjusted…

Another thought. In case XEM price drastically inflated, making the transactions cost-prohibitive in terms of percentage of the preset value (let’s say, $100) of the private mosaic, the solution could be to gradually adjust this “CCS” currency, let’s say from $100 to $1000 (and beyond?), in a planned way, over time, at lets say a planned and publicly disclosed 5% inflation rate. Similarly to how the federal reserve does it. That may be the solution. Planned SLOW increase of the value of this private mosaic. As it, the mosaic, would be 100% backed by real money, we would have to be careful, but the planned inflation rate PLUS the fact the levy would cover some it. This may be the solution.

Again, we would need a automated 3rd party fee payment system so that two parties can exchange private mosaic between themselves, anonymously, with as little friction as possible… The levy feature already exists. We are 1/2 way there. :wink:

Thank you for your time.

ps: I will be in San Francisco for most of February, would love to meet with people driving this project. Am also willing to go to Singapore for a week, too, if that’s where things are decided? What I am describing here would really be useful for me (and for the world). It would help me, but also propel XEM forward, as thousands of people would all of the sudden use it on a massive scale…