Need to seriously look at the cost of transaction

Technical Discussion
#61

Well if NEM is a game changer then shouldn't it offer lower transaction fees? If NEM is counting on supporting the network with transaction fees then it made a big mistake. After a couple of weeks it being alive and once people are done trading it then the transaction level will be very low, only a very small amount of people will support the network. If you are worried about chain bloat with lower fees then read my post above about it.  Doing hard forks has more cons then pros.

1 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD.
1 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1 USD.

So it has to change with the change of NEMs value. I don't se another way.
#62

What about tx's per day? If the number of tx's goes above x they y(fee) drops by z.. Is it Metcalfes law that says price is relative to number of transactions, varies above and below but it averages out about right or something?


Well....... Now Kodtycoon, I'll have to withdraw my idea as yours is better.  hahaha.

IF IF IF such a system in put into play Metcalfe's law seems exactly like the perfect algo for it to be based from.  I should have thought of this too.  Good ole Nick Szabo just woke up his blog to talk about this very thing, but in a different output.  (not sure if this link will get you there but it is called "Unenumerated" http://unenumerated.blogspot.kr/ )
#63


Well if NEM is a game changer then shouldn't it offer lower transaction fees? If NEM is counting on supporting the network with transaction fees then it made a big mistake. After a couple of weeks it being alive and once people are done trading it then the transaction level will be very low, only a very small amount of people will support the network. If you are worried about chain bloat with lower fees then read my post above about it.  Doing hard forks has more cons then pros.

1 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD.
1 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1 USD.

So it has to change with the change of NEMs value. I don't se another way.


NEM fee of .001, set it and leave it.
#64



Well if NEM is a game changer then shouldn't it offer lower transaction fees? If NEM is counting on supporting the network with transaction fees then it made a big mistake. After a couple of weeks it being alive and once people are done trading it then the transaction level will be very low, only a very small amount of people will support the network. If you are worried about chain bloat with lower fees then read my post above about it.  Doing hard forks has more cons then pros.

1 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD.
1 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1 USD.

So it has to change with the change of NEMs value. I don't se another way.


NEM fee of .001, set it and leave it.

You don't understand.
0,001 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD. -> spamming is a problem for the network
0,001 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1000 USD. -> people won't use it cause fee too high.
#65

@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.

#66




Well if NEM is a game changer then shouldn't it offer lower transaction fees? If NEM is counting on supporting the network with transaction fees then it made a big mistake. After a couple of weeks it being alive and once people are done trading it then the transaction level will be very low, only a very small amount of people will support the network. If you are worried about chain bloat with lower fees then read my post above about it.  Doing hard forks has more cons then pros.

1 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD.
1 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1 USD.

So it has to change with the change of NEMs value. I don't se another way.


NEM fee of .001, set it and leave it.

You don't understand.
0,001 NEM fee is low if 1 NEM costs 0,00001 USD. -> spamming is a problem for the network
0,001 NEM fee is high if 1 NEM costs 1000 USD. -> people won't use it cause fee too high.
yes sorry, not sure what I was thinking
#67

@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...
#68


@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
#69

If somebody had 1 million NEM, they could do 1 million transactions.  just sending a message a couple of sentences long could get then 500,000 entries. 

If they just sent 0.0000001, they could get almost 1 million NEM transfers.  Not sure which would be worse on block chain bloat. 

#70



@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
Who said anything about logic  :P

Bloat could happen no matter what.

With the low transaction fee I was thinking long term, using forks later  on especially when NEM has lots more users is dangerous, too many things could go wrong. From my point of view the developers focused on what NXT was doing to much instead of looking at what other solutions there were. I guess the NEM developers can just wait and see what NXT does with their transaction fees then copy it.
#71




@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
Who said anything about logic  :P

Bloat could happen no matter what.

With the low transaction fee I was thinking long term, using forks later  on especially when NEM has lots more users is dangerous, too many things could go wrong. From my point of view the developers focused on what NXT was doing to much instead of looking at what other solutions there were. I guess the NEM developers can just wait and see what NXT does with their transaction fees then copy it.


Tell about those other solutions. There are 0 other solution working right now. There isn't a single crypto that has really low tx fees. PoW cryptos with inflation can afford low fees because they have inflation and that's where the rewards come from.
You sounds like you have no idea about this stuff yet came here to try to talk smack (and fail miserably).
#72





@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
Who said anything about logic  :P

Bloat could happen no matter what.

With the low transaction fee I was thinking long term, using forks later  on especially when NEM has lots more users is dangerous, too many things could go wrong. From my point of view the developers focused on what NXT was doing to much instead of looking at what other solutions there were. I guess the NEM developers can just wait and see what NXT does with their transaction fees then copy it.


Tell about those other solutions. There are 0 other solution working right now. There isn't a single crypto that has really low tx fees. PoW cryptos with inflation can afford low fees because they have inflation and that's where the rewards come from.
You sounds like you have no idea about this stuff yet came here to try to talk smack (and fail miserably).
Come out of your NEM bubble.

I was just giving my point of view, this isn't the first time you have gone off on somebody because they didn't share the same point of view and coming from a main NEM member that doesn't look go. Don't know what I'm talking about? Well at least I know that the transaction fee is too high (which there is a simple fix to this, you even gave the answer).

Raise the number of NEM to 8 billion, I'm sure this will solve your problems  ::)
#73

Please everyone stay cool :wink:
The fee problem cannot be solved that easily.

#74




@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
Who said anything about logic  :P

Bloat could happen no matter what.

With the low transaction fee I was thinking long term, using forks later  on especially when NEM has lots more users is dangerous, too many things could go wrong. From my point of view the developers focused on what NXT was doing to much instead of looking at what other solutions there were. I guess the NEM developers can just wait and see what NXT does with their transaction fees then copy it.


OK. Clear now that you are saying there is no logic involved and you are shooting rubbish off your mouth. Point taken. Shall disregard what you have said and from hereon.
#75






@averagejoe: as I explained earlier here in the thread this would be unwise.
If you are talking about bloat then here is what I posted about it:

What people are forgetting is that by having 1 million NEM per stake really opens NEM to block chain bloat right from the gate. For example:

Someone doesn't like NEM buys a stake from the NXT AE, the day NEM goes live he starts sending out 1 NEM transactions with a 1 NEM fee so that gives him the ability to send out 500,000 transactions (more if they lower the transaction amount). I know it will take awhile but in a month more then 1000 transactions could be sent and this is on top of the other transactions people are making. Now if they share their NEM with two or more people well...


I don't see your logic. Then why are you proposing 0.001 NEM per transaction? Wouldn't that make it bloat in half the time?

So what are you trying to say here actually?
Who said anything about logic  :P

Bloat could happen no matter what.

With the low transaction fee I was thinking long term, using forks later  on especially when NEM has lots more users is dangerous, too many things could go wrong. From my point of view the developers focused on what NXT was doing to much instead of looking at what other solutions there were. I guess the NEM developers can just wait and see what NXT does with their transaction fees then copy it.


Tell about those other solutions. There are 0 other solution working right now. There isn't a single crypto that has really low tx fees. PoW cryptos with inflation can afford low fees because they have inflation and that's where the rewards come from.
You sounds like you have no idea about this stuff yet came here to try to talk smack (and fail miserably).
Come out of your NEM bubble.

I was just giving my point of view, this isn't the first time you have gone off on somebody because they didn't share the same point of view and coming from a main NEM member that doesn't look go. Don't know what I'm talking about? Well at least I know that the transaction fee is too high (which there is a simple fix to this, you even gave the answer).

Raise the number of NEM to 8 billion, I'm sure this will solve your problems  ::)


That wasn't going off...geez...little over sensitive there ?
Yes your solution was just lower the fees. What a great solution. Because the fees are set the way they are just for fun right ?
#76

I gave my point of view and then was told by you i don't know what im talking about and its smack, yes that is constructive.

Im guessing that the 1 NEM transaction is to stop bloat.and pay the harvesters ? As I have pointed out bloat can still happen and why not have some pow type system to not only pay harvesters but  also have a slow steady increase of NEM? I read something about a lottery system,  what happened with that?

As for bloat why not pay out harvesters once an hour instead of every transaction? I ask here https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2563.0 but can't seem to get an answer.  This would more gave some information so some ideas could be discussed about fees. Then again as you said, what do I know?

#77

I gave my point of view and then was told by you i don't know what im talking about and its smack, yes that is constructive.


Yes because that's what it was. You were hostile accusing NEM of only looking at what NXT was doing.


Im guessing that the 1 NEM transaction is to stop bloat.and pay the harvesters ? As I have pointed out bloat can still happen and why not have some pow type system to not only pay harvesters but  also have a slow steady increase of NEM? I read something about a lottery system,  what happened with that?


We asked the community what they think of inflation and iirc there wasn't a single positive reaction to it so that idea is prob not going to become a reality.
Personally I'd still like to see a very small inflation but that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion.


As for bloat why not pay out harvesters once an hour instead of every transaction? I ask here https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2563.0 but can't seem to get an answer.  This would more gave some information so some ideas could be discussed about fees. Then again as you said, what do I know?


What advantage do you see in paying harvester every hour ?
#78

By only paying harvesters once an hour it will cut down on the blockchain bloat which might help  with smaller fees. In my opinion, it will hurt NEM by not having a small increase. No currency stays static.

#79


Im guessing that the 1 NEM transaction is to stop bloat.and pay the harvesters ? As I have pointed out bloat can still happen and why not have some pow type system to not only pay harvesters but  also have a slow steady increase of NEM? I read something about a lottery system,  what happened with that?


We asked the community what they think of inflation and iirc there wasn't a single positive reaction to it so that idea is prob not going to become a reality.
Personally I'd still like to see a very small inflation but that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion.


There was a load, vocal minority that was against inflation. Having said that, I'm not sure of a successful currency without an increasing money supply. Natural resources (e.g. gold) effectively inflate as more are found and mined. Same with Bitcoin.

There have been some discussions to simulate inflation with unclaimed states, but nothing has been decided to date.
#80

By only paying harvesters once an hour it will cut down on the blockchain bloat which might help  with smaller fees. In my opinion, it will hurt NEM by not having a small increase. No currency stays static.


Can you elaborate on how this would cut down on blockchain bloat? I don't think I follow.