NEM silver coin for all stakeholders?

Ideas
#101

Rockethead quote

Can you not interpret $120 as not expensive when compared to buying coins from elsewhere and have them shipped to you?

This is a blatant falsehood. 1 0z silver is max 20 dollars US and international shipping about 20 bucks or so. Can be much cheaper from some place. If you want to make profit to benefit NEM fine, but don't try to say this is cheap price for silver because it is not. It is very expensive.


I give you $50 bucks and you mint and ship for me. I am glad to do that. Stand up and take the damn challenge and don't talk behind on that armchair!

I hate to be sarcastic and vitriolic but I think you are a small kid spilling shit from your arse!
#102


Rockethead quote

Can you not interpret $120 as not expensive when compared to buying coins from elsewhere and have them shipped to you?

This is a blatant falsehood. 1 0z silver is max 20 dollars US and international shipping about 20 bucks or so. Can be much cheaper from some place. If you want to make profit to benefit NEM fine, but don't try to say this is cheap price for silver because it is not. It is very expensive.


I give you $50 bucks and you mint and ship for me. I am glad to do that. Stand up and take the damn challenge and don't talk behind on that armchair!

I hate to be sarcastic and vitriolic but I think you are a small kid spilling shit from your arse!


You are minting in bulk, everyone who mints an OZ of silver also must pay minting costs and still they sell for $20.
Pay attention people. This is the true face of NEM.
#103

Without shipping this is ~ 22 $.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-1-OUNCE-SILVER-EAGLE-1-COIN-999-FINE-SILVER-GEM-BRILLIANT-UNCIRCULATED-/251634924363?pt=US_Bullion_Coins&hash=item3a969c3b4b

#104

1 & 2. If you open up the 3rd. choice, there is more than a 3rd. choice. What about those who bought their stakes from the AE at $600-$1000 per stake? Wouldn't they fight for a more egalitarian distribution vs. those who got them for free?


Not at all. People who bought from AE have no claim compared to NEMsters who believed in the project from the beginning, especially since they did not buy stakes from devs but from stakeholders in AFTERMARKET deals. Your logic makes no sense, the price on AE is of no consequence, why do you keep going on about this? you seem to resent the fact that early adopters got their NEMstakes for nothing or for cheap, but that was the vision of NEM and decision of devs, now it is clear you view stakeholders who paid for NEM on AE as somehow superior. The reason...greed?

. Do we want wealth to be distributed to these owners instead of spreading it further? Redistributing this internally will only concentrate ownership to those few owners.


We have to trust you that it will distributed further and I am doubting that based on your messages tbh. There is nothing to suggest you and Makoto are more trustworthy and better to benefit this community than 1200 unique NEMsters.


3. I have nothing to add here. Absolute anonymity cannot simply happen in thin air. The very existence of a being makes everyone not anonymous. Hence, this can only be an ideal situation and does not happen in a real world.


Complete nonesense. Of course there is a difference between what you are talking about here and the fact that NEM is attempting to mine the names and addresses of all stakeholders in order to get this silver. What cryptocurrency basically REQUIRES all stakeholders to submit their names and addresses in order to take full advantage? even Ripple does not do this.


4. Devs buy the silvers from AltNemo and AltNemo is selling the stakes.


At vastly inflated prices and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that devs have a nice little money making deal with AltNemo.


Whilst we are at it, do note that the first round of 155 stakes (taken from socks) that were meant to be auctioned off belongs to the devs as bonus if they did not use it.


Nice profit for you, and still you want unclaimed stakes too?


People are selfish and they only want transient gains to  move on. Nothing's left for the furtherance of NEM.


you seem to view everyone as selfish, except yourself. We have no guarantees on what your profit will be used for., This is sounding like an elaborate premine rammed through without community consent.

And Makoto will be a beneficiary of this development bonus too. And he is selfless enough to promote something else. I will also gain some trickles too if it is being distributed. But I am not here to gain those stakes. It serves no purpose to a greater agenda.


There you have it. Words from your own mouth, you and makoto will be beneficiaries of this.


Come to think of it, if I am selfish, we won't even talk about this and let the spoils come to me instead. I think I may stand to gain more from that and have less responsibility in managing the delivery of the silvers.


Threats from the dictator. If anyone raises concerns about his plans he will pocket the stakes for himself. So either he pockets some of the stake or he takes them all. Your choice people.


Anyway, it is all pointless to talk about this and I believe it is a waste of time on my part. I have other more important things to attend to. You guys can go on and bicker about this. I am out of this topic.


Community concerns are a pointless waste of time for him to listen. The dictator has his view and his orders will be carried out, the rest of us can go to hell.

Thanks for you answers rockethead. This project is suspicious for me now
#105

Without shipping this is ~ 22 $.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-1-OUNCE-SILVER-EAGLE-1-COIN-999-FINE-SILVER-GEM-BRILLIANT-UNCIRCULATED-/251634924363?pt=US_Bullion_Coins&hash=item3a969c3b4b


Correct and don't forget silver eagles carry a premium because they are minted by US govt approved mints. Even if rockethead is telling the truth and it truly cost him $120 to mint a single oz, what does that matter? all that means is he is a bad businessman, the NEMster who receives the NEM silver will only be able to sell it for $18 bucks or so, and he will also take a hit on his NEM value from the dumping of stakes.
#106

I really dont like the tone of this conversation, but I also was a little bit schocked, when I searched 1OZ of silver coins and have seen they go for 20 dollars on ebay. Could you please give us some overview of costs and explain how is the end price calculated?

P.S. If it was already done somewhere, Im sorry.

#107

I was on the fence about the silver coins being funded by unclaimed/sock stakes and after much thought I'm not in favor of it. I don't think it's a good idea for a private company to benefit from unclaimed/sock stakes. If another company was to come along tomorrow would they be offered the same opportunity? I don't think they would some how… Also there is the issue of unclaimed silver coins which there will be loads no doubt. Nems stakes shouldnt imo be used to benefit one company over another. This would be a one off thing obviously. Of course people would vote yes because if they vote no they get nothing extra. With only "get something for nothing" or "get nothing" options the result was only going to be one thing and people voted with out thought of the consequences. It has always been said that altnemo and nem are completely seperate but a deal like this would brake that. This deal will bring more negative attention than it will good. And what happens if altnemo fails for what ever reason? It would be dubbed a big scam for ever after. I'm sorry but I can't agree for this to go ahead. I love the idea of everyone getting silver coins and I want altnemo to be funded but I think it's being done in completely the wrong way. If this goes ahead, it's going to put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth.

#108

I really dont like the tone of this conversation, but I also was a little bit schocked, when I searched 1OZ of silver coins and have seen they go for 20 dollars on ebay. Could you please give us some overview of costs and explain how is the end price calculated?

P.S. If it was already done somewhere, Im sorry.


I have maybe a question that's been asked before too: why aren't the unclaimed stakes being divided amongst the stakeholders?
#109


4. Devs buy the silvers from AltNemo and AltNemo is selling the stakes.


At vastly inflated prices and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that devs have a nice little money making deal with AltNemo.


Whilst we are at it, do note that the first round of 155 stakes (taken from socks) that were meant to be auctioned off belongs to the devs as bonus if they did not use it.


Nice profit for you, and still you want unclaimed stakes too?


Here are some facts for you:


    [li]community fund will be managed by community, so if sock stakes would be there they would be managed by community[/li]
    [li]devs don't have deal with AltNemo, you have my word on that, you can either believe me or not (also I'm really interested how would that money making look)[/li]
    [li]most devs were against buying silver coins for community, but that's how community voted[/li]
    [li]don't mix up altnemo initiatives with NEM itself[/li]
    [li]unclaimed - where did you get that from? those should belong to community fund as well[/li]


    edit:


      [li]just in case you've missed it: devs/marketing/eco are not allowed to get silvercoins for stakes[/li]
#110



4. Devs buy the silvers from AltNemo and AltNemo is selling the stakes.


At vastly inflated prices and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that devs have a nice little money making deal with AltNemo.


Whilst we are at it, do note that the first round of 155 stakes (taken from socks) that were meant to be auctioned off belongs to the devs as bonus if they did not use it.


Nice profit for you, and still you want unclaimed stakes too?


Here are some facts for you:


    [li]community fund will be managed by community, so if sock stakes would be there they would be managed by community[/li]
    [li]devs don't have deal with AltNemo, you have my word on that, you can either believe me or not (also I'm really interested how would that money making look)[/li]
    [li]most devs were against buying silver coins for community, but that's how community voted[/li]
    [li]don't mix up altnemo initiatives with NEM itself[/li]
    [li]unclaimed - where did you get that from? those should belong to community fund as well[/li]


    edit:


      [li]just in case you've missed it: devs/marketing/eco are not allowed to get silvercoins for stakes[/li]



gimre thanks for stating the facts.

AltNemo is a company. NEM development is independent from AltNemo.
#111




4. Devs buy the silvers from AltNemo and AltNemo is selling the stakes.


At vastly inflated prices and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that devs have a nice little money making deal with AltNemo.


Whilst we are at it, do note that the first round of 155 stakes (taken from socks) that were meant to be auctioned off belongs to the devs as bonus if they did not use it.


Nice profit for you, and still you want unclaimed stakes too?


Here are some facts for you:


    [li]community fund will be managed by community, so if sock stakes would be there they would be managed by community[/li]
    [li]devs don't have deal with AltNemo, you have my word on that, you can either believe me or not (also I'm really interested how would that money making look)[/li]
    [li]most devs were against buying silver coins for community, but that's how community voted[/li]
    [li]don't mix up altnemo initiatives with NEM itself[/li]
    [li]unclaimed - where did you get that from? those should belong to community fund as well[/li]


    edit:


      [li]just in case you've missed it: devs/marketing/eco are not allowed to get silvercoins for stakes[/li]



gimre thanks for stating the facts.

AltNemo is a company. NEM development is independent from AltNemo.


The managing of a community fund has no problems now - as it is not the question of this time. Before we are in that state, we have to solve this: 
  what is saved to a community fund?

Eg. in the last newsletter was linked sock puppets and development contract. 
Where is that development contract, which says about sock puppets that
"these stakes are supposed to go ... fund" ?

Not here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19so-Jy3Gqw2KltZP-gaw3oFaHliN0OdtwZktOP4pCOQ/edit?pli=1


Also the case of 'unclaimed stakes' is unsolved. Documentation of that?

Without documents I would not say that these are facts about puppets, unclaimed stakes and funds.
It is an open issue, which strongly affects to the NEM distribution.


Edit:
About the vote: in an important case like this, the issue should have had more discussion and information before the vote and the vote should have more voters than 59 (out from ~1500 registered stakeholder + 500 yet unclaimed stakeholders). When there is not enough voters, then happens usually so that the suggested issue wins, because there already have been supporters before they decide to take the issue to a vote.




In the other thread
https://forum.ournem.com/nem-news-alerts/stakes-of-sock-puppets-and-unclaimed-stakes/new/#new
is presented some examples, how the coins are distributed.
There is only one commentator, who seems to promote the example, where each stakeholder gets 1/4000th of the total amount of stakes.


Example 6. Fixed stake size 1/4000th = 2.2 M to each 1500 stakeholder, rest to fund
                    - Fund 1 is the coins from unclaimed stakes
                    - Fund 2 is the coins, which sock puppets reserved
                    - Fund 3 is needed for "leftovers" to get the 100% full

                                        - p% = coins/total * 100


                            stak    p%          coins        coins/stakeholder

Stakeholders      1500  37.50    3375000000        2250000
Fund 1                  500    12.50    1124999999 
Fund 2                  250    6.25        562500000 
Dev team                      25          2249999999 
Fund 3                          18.75    1687500000 

Total                              100      8999999999 


According to that example there would be plenty of coins for eg. silver project.
Will this be the distribution of NEM?
#112


I really dont like the tone of this conversation, but I also was a little bit schocked, when I searched 1OZ of silver coins and have seen they go for 20 dollars on ebay. Could you please give us some overview of costs and explain how is the end price calculated?
P.S. If it was already done somewhere, Im sorry.

I have maybe a question that's been asked before too: why aren't the unclaimed stakes being divided amongst the stakeholders?

Fast and simple answer:

What if:

you have 1 Nem with U$$ 1,00 stake value ?;

you have 1 000 000 Nem with U$$ 1,00 stake value?

Whats the difference?

I use cryptos for time enough to be able to recognize everyone is crazy to have a lot of coins to make pump and dump schemme.

Just dont forget one simple detail: If the coin devellopment goes down river, the coin goes too.

so again: Why dont give just stake holders the coins from puppets?

I can see clearly that I loose money with this.

The more wide is the distribution, the more valuable the coin tends to be.

If you cant see like this, on the future will be able to notice that.

About the votes with a very low participation: How can you make people come here and vote?

I got no clue about this. They know its important and, probably, they are adults.
#113



4. Devs buy the silvers from AltNemo and AltNemo is selling the stakes.


At vastly inflated prices and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that devs have a nice little money making deal with AltNemo.


Whilst we are at it, do note that the first round of 155 stakes (taken from socks) that were meant to be auctioned off belongs to the devs as bonus if they did not use it.


Nice profit for you, and still you want unclaimed stakes too?


Here are some facts for you:


    [li]community fund will be managed by community, so if sock stakes would be there they would be managed by community[/li]
    [li]devs don't have deal with AltNemo, you have my word on that, you can either believe me or not (also I'm really interested how would that money making look)[/li]
    [li]most devs were against buying silver coins for community, but that's how community voted[/li]
    [li]don't mix up altnemo initiatives with NEM itself[/li]
    [li]unclaimed - where did you get that from? those should belong to community fund as well[/li]


    edit:


      [li]just in case you've missed it: devs/marketing/eco are not allowed to get silvercoins for stakes[/li]



OK thanks for some attempt to address these concerns. I still have some concerns, but I retired from this thread now. I said my piece and I will let others say theirs and debate this.
#114



Rockethead quote

Can you not interpret $120 as not expensive when compared to buying coins from elsewhere and have them shipped to you?

This is a blatant falsehood. 1 0z silver is max 20 dollars US and international shipping about 20 bucks or so. Can be much cheaper from some place. If you want to make profit to benefit NEM fine, but don't try to say this is cheap price for silver because it is not. It is very expensive.


I give you $50 bucks and you mint and ship for me. I am glad to do that. Stand up and take the damn challenge and don't talk behind on that armchair!

I hate to be sarcastic and vitriolic but I think you are a small kid spilling shit from your arse!


You are minting in bulk, everyone who mints an OZ of silver also must pay minting costs and still they sell for $20.
Pay attention people. This is the true face of NEM.


You have a right not to subscribe to the silvers and not to vote for this. And I won't bother. To say that it is blatant falsehood is outright accusation of a con job. That is tantamount to a public libel of my intention and integrity. You have no proof of that. In a court of law, your claim won't stand. Remember that Robbieboy. If I were you, I will run for cover.

Secondly your claim from the website is about a mint that is in real huge quantities. If you read the initiative, it is to be minted in Perth Mint and it is also guaranteed by the Government of Western Australia AND the quantity is not huge. A few thousand coins  IS NOT huge.

And here is a typical price of their Koala : http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalogue/australian-koala-2012-1oz-silver-proof-high-relief-coin.aspx
We are talking about a special coin designed for NEM. It is not a run of the mill mint. We are also talking about going to a mint that will mint for us and is well recognised internationally and is world class. Not all mints of world class standing, especially government backed will do that so simply for a private company. US Mint won't just mint for you. Even Perth Mint requires KYC procedures. All the rest of the mints are not well known and if we went there it would be tantamount to falsehood because we cannot have a back to back guarantee of a government. So, there is in fact premium here. Don't simply use anything as a yardstick without knowing the reason behind it.

If you want to proof that I made a blatant falsehood claim, go ahead and check with Perth Mint and see if you can come to the real picture. I need not proof anything at this stage, because in any court of law, a person is innocent until proven guilty. You have to prove my guilt before you can accuse me of making blatant falsehood claims. Otherwise you are guilty of saying that.

Postage, hologram, NEM coins inclusion into silvers, logistics and packaging is not as simple you will think it to be. Go do some homework. Perth mint won't send out individually and won't do hologram sticks and packaging. They mint and we collect. US Parcel Postage is only for the US. Global parcel is not so simple as well. Again go do some homework. If you are too lazy, you can follow this link here and you can verify for yourself: http://www.ups.com/media/en/gb/service_guide_au.pdf

Finally, on top of that we need to fulfil the intents of the crowdsale, i.e., a profit we must achieve to fund our projects.

If you say I am a bad businessman, then teach me how to do better. What are your credentials that you are such a great businessman to be able to say that I am a bad businessman?

Satisfy yourself thoroughly and come back and tell me if I have made any blatant falsehood claims.



#115

Outright threats and intimidation from a guy who is supposed to be administering this protocol. Highly unprofessional.

Fine I will leave this community, i have seen enough, I hope everyone else saw too.

#116

You're referencing the Silver Eagles which 40 million were produced last year and there's almost no collectible value to them. 

Everywhere else a mintage, at a renown mint, under 10,000 starts at $50 and goes up to $100 depending on the features.  Even eBay reflects that.





#117

You're referencing the Silver Eagles which 40 million were produced last year and there's almost no collectible value to them. 

Everywhere else a mintage, at a renown mint, under 10,000 starts at $50 and goes up to $100 depending on the features.  Even eBay reflects that.


Yes, a coin like this could be worth many thousands of dollars in the future if NEM is even moderately successful.
#118

Rockethead quote

Can you not interpret $120 as not expensive when compared to buying coins from elsewhere and have them shipped to you?

This is a blatant falsehood. 1 0z silver is max 20 dollars US and international shipping about 20 bucks or so. Can be much cheaper from some place. If you want to make profit to benefit NEM fine, but don't try to say this is cheap price for silver because it is not. It is very expensive.


Cost is about $95 per coin to produce and ship. There needs to be some extra added on to deal with currency fluctuations and to make it work the time, so $125 per coin is not obscene.
#119

Outright threats and intimidation from a guy who is supposed to be administering this protocol. Highly unprofessional.

Fine I will leave this community, i have seen enough, I hope everyone else saw too.


I think people should just relax a little :)

Rockethead works on NEM almost 24/7 and writes almost everything for our newsletters, etc. He's doing great work and I think we all appreciate it.

I don't know why Rockethead didn't want to share the coin costs publicly, but I have seen the costs and AltNemo is not making a huge amount of money per coin. After starting a holding company in Singapore to order from the mint, shipping to Singapore, attaching cold wallets, and doing insured shipping to anywhere on earth, the cost per coin for our small batch is about $95 per coin.

So just relax. My motivation for pushing the coins are to provide a physical object of lasting value to everyone in the nemesis block. I think this is going to huge for NEM and the community poll clearly shows that a majority agrees with this.

Remember that NEM is about equality of opportunity. Besides rockethead, however, no one else has taking an initiative to work and spend money to create a company that uses NEM. NEM is free and open source and AltNemo is just the first company that will use NEM. If others created things for NEM, they would get an equal opportunity to benefit as well. I think we should support those who are trying to launch NEM to da moon ^ ^
#120

Yes. more stakes more coins. more distributions and big NEM. small brains small NEMs. haha.