Number of Coins Committee

Ideas
#1

Over the past month+, there has been a lot of discussion as to how many coins NEM should launch with.

Rather than choosing random numbers out of the air and saying, "I think it should be this…," we should do a quantitative analysis and choose an amount that makes sense based on the results.

For this, I propose the immediate creation of a committee to create a proposal for the number of coins for NEM. This committee should study launches of other coins and look at the relationship between market cap, number of coins, and human psychology. It should also consider various cultures and what the numbers mean in those cultures. Finally, it should consider costs of various goods in NEM at different market caps, both at launch and in the future when NEM replaces the world economy.

For this important task, I nominate the following members:


    [li]nembit86[/li]
    [li]rockethead[/li]
    [li]taunsew[/li]
    [li]patmast3r[/li]
    [li]jabo38s[/li]
    [li]xtester[/li]


    Can you all participate and help move this forward? It would be good to have results by the end of this week.

    Please use this thread to discuss things publicly so that others can comment as well :slight_smile:

    Also, let's try to not use opinions or appeal to emotions, but rather consider what the best option is given the data at hand.
#2

I am willing to participate in this discussion. 

I am very interested to hear the thoughts of others.

#3

I am willing to participate in this discussion. 

I am very interested to hear the thoughts of others.

+1

In my opinion - the more the better
#4

Yes, I am happy to take part…like Jabo…I am prepared to listen as well as make my own points…this is a very important matter and sound reasoning should be behind the final amount of coins for launch.

Before we start I suspect we base coin amount on' full adoption' …I mean thats what everyone wants right ?

#5

Thanks guys :slight_smile:


Remember, let's try to do a numerical analysis and not be swayed by emotions or other considerations. I think we should study what other coins have done and how varying amounts have fared. Also, I am interested in the psychological implications of various numbers, for those who have a background in human psychology.

#6

This is just my preliminary research, not my final argument.  Again, this is not my specialty.  But I thought of matching it to gold (in a way this is what Satoshi did), thought of matching it to all the money in the world already existing, or matching it to people.  Below are my thoughts.  If anybody else can make better sense of these numbers or finds where I slipped up, please let me know.

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Satoshi tied in Bitcoin's production to the amount of gold in the world, so that the supply mimics gold creating value. He even went as far as to call getting Bitcoins rewards as "mining" because he wanted it to mimic gold mining.  At NEM we can't really do that because all our NEM is released at once.  But still we can try to be like gold if we want.  So  since we create our total supply at once, then I guess we need to figure out how much gold there is in the world and mimic that. 

There is 5.8 billion troy ounces of gold in the world already mined.  Or 10 billion troy ounces of gold already mined.  Depending on sources. (1 troy ounce equals 1 coin)
http://money.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm  http://www.numbersleuth.org/worlds-gold/

If we wanted to say that 1 NEM should be worth 1 gold coin in the future, than a good bet for the number of NEM would be 8 billion. 
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The total amount of money in the world is $241,000,000,000,000.  An easy guess then could be that we need 241 trillion NEM, but if we account that NEM is divisible by 6 decimal points, than I think it is safe to knock off 4 of those 6 zeros.  (A sub NEM fraction of two points is important as that is how people are used to thinking).  That would mean we would need 24 billion NEM (24,100,000,000 NEM).  That is assuming NEM became the only store of wealth in the world and that there were no more national currencies and precious metals were no longer valuable and all property and personal possessions were sold. 

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combined-wealth-world.html?doing_wp_cron=1415579881.0712060928344726562500

The problem with this figure is that I also need to consider how much national debt exists in the world.  I really think that 24 billion NEM is a good number, but the full amount of debt should be subtracted from that as the $241,000,000,000,000 is just the money created but does not include the national debt so it is kind of a false number.  I am going to look more into this later.  For all I know there is actually far more debt than there is actual money, which I

#7


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The total amount of money in the world is $241,000,000,000,000.  An easy guess then could be that we need 241 trillion NEM, but if we account that NEM is divisible by 6 decimal points, than I think it is safe to knock off 4 of those 6 zeros.  (A sub NEM fraction of two points is important as that is how people are used to thinking).  That would mean we would need 24 billion NEM (24,100,000,000 NEM).  That is assuming NEM became the only store of wealth in the world and that there were no more national currencies and precious metals were no longer valuable and all property and personal possessions were sold. 

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combined-wealth-world.html?doing_wp_cron=1415579881.0712060928344726562500

The problem with this figure is that I also need to consider how much national debt exists in the world.  I really think that 24 billion NEM is a good number, but the full amount of debt should be subtracted from that as the $241,000,000,000,000 is just the money created but does not include the national debt so it is kind of a false number.  I am going to look more into this later.  For all I know there is actually far more debt than there is actual money, which I
#8

Can I get some thoughts on this suggestion:

So here is an idea for the breakdown of NEM. I took the idea of how they came up with the metric system(using measurements of the earth as a basis) and applied it to a monetary system(using human population as a basis).

Total NEM- 8 Billion
NEM for stakes- 7.125 Billion(World Population)
NEM for items as discussed in this thread-https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2501.0- 875 Million
Inflation for Node payments- 384k/day (number of new humans born each day)  [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;topic=654845.msg9488224]

#9

When you talk about the "total money amount" why is it in dollars? What makes you think that is the best currency to originate from? And if this truly is a new economy I do not think we should analys any of the current fiat currencies that we want to replace. We should also keep in mind that for nem to succeed it needs to be more easily adopted at the start than when it has "conquered the world".

#11

When you talk about the "total money amount" why is it in dollars? What makes you think that is the best currency to originate from? And if this truly is a new economy I do not think we should analys any of the current fiat currencies that we want to replace. We should also keep in mind that for nem to succeed it needs to be more easily adopted at the start than when it has "conquered the world".


I agree with you in the first part of your comment. 241 trillion ,if this is accurate at the moment ,will definately not be accurate in a few years from now as money creation is pretty much exponential and ongoing .I agree that using these numbers may not be the best way to determine NEM amount.( although I am not discounting Jabos figures either)
  The thing is though that we have to determine NEM amount on the 'end game 'as all coins are thrown out at Nemesis block.
#12

[...]
Above eight billion is useless unless NEM is going to explode and becomes THE only cryptocurrency used one day. And although I am really excited in NEM and am convinced that a bright future is in front of it, let's be a little realistic; 1 NEM is not going to be worth around 1 000 000 $/
#13

Рассчитывайте сумму чтобы было по 1000 NEM на каждого жителя планеты а не по одной монетки на каждого (ай ты моя прелесть!) Дефицит никогда ни к чему хорошему не приводит.

Google translate :

Count the sum that was on 1000 NEM on each inhabitant of the planet but not on one coin on everyone (ouch you are my charm!) Deficiency never to anything good doesn't lead.

#14

[...]
There is 5.8 billion troy ounces of gold in the world already mined.  Or 10 billion troy ounces of gold already mined.  Depending on sources. (1 troy ounce equals 1 coin)
http://money.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm  http://www.numbersleuth.org/worlds-gold/

If we wanted to say that 1 NEM should be worth 1 gold coin in the future, than a good bet for the number of NEM would be 8 billion. 
[...]

Why do you think an ounce is the amount to do the measurement? Why not gramm or cm
#15

Ok…lets approach this problem from the bottom up instead of the top down.
6 decimal places to 1 nem ok?
The lowest denomination of NEM is 0.000001  is this correct?
Now, what should this buy…?
I suggest that this should buy …  A penny sweet…

Using this…then how much Nem should a loaf of bread cost…
                            how much Nem should a Kg of rice cost…
                            how much Nem should buy a an average bottle of wine…etc…

If we get prices in Nem for basic products that everyone needs…then we can build the number up to total worldwide amounts…we must consider though that certain things like property for example is probably overpriced at the moment…

#16

This is just my preliminary research, not my final argument.  Again, this is not my specialty.  But I thought of matching it to gold (in a way this is what Satoshi did), thought of matching it to all the money in the world already existing, or matching it to people.  Below are my thoughts.  If anybody else can make better sense of these numbers or finds where I slipped up, please let me know.

------------------
Satoshi tied in Bitcoin's production to the amount of gold in the world, so that the supply mimics gold creating value. He even went as far as to call getting Bitcoins rewards as "mining" because he wanted it to mimic gold mining.  At NEM we can't really do that because all our NEM is released at once.  But still we can try to be like gold if we want.  So  since we create our total supply at once, then I guess we need to figure out how much gold there is in the world and mimic that. 

There is 5.8 billion troy ounces of gold in the world already mined.  Or 10 billion troy ounces of gold already mined.  Depending on sources. (1 troy ounce equals 1 coin)
http://money.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm  http://www.numbersleuth.org/worlds-gold/

If we wanted to say that 1 NEM should be worth 1 gold coin in the future, than a good bet for the number of NEM would be 8 billion. 
---------------------------------------

The total amount of money in the world is $241,000,000,000,000.  An easy guess then could be that we need 241 trillion NEM, but if we account that NEM is divisible by 6 decimal points, than I think it is safe to knock off 4 of those 6 zeros.  (A sub NEM fraction of two points is important as that is how people are used to thinking).  That would mean we would need 24 billion NEM (24,100,000,000 NEM).  That is assuming NEM became the only store of wealth in the world and that there were no more national currencies and precious metals were no longer valuable and all property and personal possessions were sold. 

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combined-wealth-world.html?doing_wp_cron=1415579881.0712060928344726562500

The problem with this figure is that I also need to consider how much national debt exists in the world.  I really think that 24 billion NEM is a good number, but the full amount of debt should be subtracted from that as the $241,000,000,000,000 is just the money created but does not include the national debt so it is kind of a false number.  I am going to look more into this later.  For all I know there is actually far more debt than there is actual money, which I
#18



[...]
Above eight billion is useless unless NEM is going to explode and becomes THE only cryptocurrency used one day. And although I am really excited in NEM and am convinced that a bright future is in front of it, let's be a little realistic; 1 NEM is not going to be worth around 1 000 000 $/
#19

Just checking cmc …coins with high numbers seem to do ok…Ripple,Solar coin,Dogecoin and Stellar.  Colossus coin has highest coinage with 312 billion…not doing so great but I dont know why and I am not familiar with this coin at all.

#20

As jkoil pointed out (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9499457#msg9499457), larger numbers might be easier to spend, so it would likely increase the velocity of money.


I think there is definitely a sweet spot somewhere. In Japan a coffee can cost between 500 and 1000 Yen, so having NEM be between 1000 and 10000 for a cup of coffee when we have a market cap of $100 billion is probably a good qty to have.


Any idea how to determine the number of NEM for such a situation?

#21




[...]
Above eight billion is useless unless NEM is going to explode and becomes THE only cryptocurrency used one day. And although I am really excited in NEM and am convinced that a bright future is in front of it, let's be a little realistic; 1 NEM is not going to be worth around 1 000 000 $/
#22

From jkoil: http://spacecollective.org/TheUndying/5970/Big-numbers-and-the-human-mind