PoI algorithm and sybill attacks

General Discussion
#1

Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?

#2

Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


I'm afraid you'll have to wait for the whitepaper. But you can rest assured that POI IS NOT susceptible to sybill attacks.
#3

Well let's hope so :slight_smile:

Are you planning on letting PoI to be scientifically reviewed?

#4

Well let's hope so :)

Are you planning on letting PoI to be scientifically reviewed?


As soon as the whitepaper will be released we hope as many capable people as possible review it. I'm not sure if that will coincide with the source release but of course we'll also let everyone review our code.
I don't think we should pay for a review but if a reasonable offer is made/found then we may do that too.
#5

Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)
#6


Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)


I know :-)
#7



Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)


I know :-)


ech, but I dont :D
i will just start digging then ...
#8


Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)

I can't find it. Why don't you link or summerize it? It's no secret ;)
#9



Hey,

I'm really interested in how the Proof of Importance algorithm works and how it avoids Sybill attacks.
Is there any documentation on the algorithm or do we have to wait for a white paper?


Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)

I can't find it. Why don't you link or summerize it? It's no secret ;)


I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM

#10

I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM

Yes, I think that's true. But is that how sybil attacks are avoided?
#11


I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM

Yes, I think that's true. But is that how sybil attacks are avoided?
That I'm not sure but from using my spam bots as well as watching other nodes on the network I think that it would only take 3 or 4 nodes working together to increase their importance. During the last beta I only had 15 million NEM but at one point I was able to increase importance to 0.35%. I am trying something new this time but the results are not as good.
#12

I am also able to Harvest my own txs when I spam, here are three blocks to check (there have been others but I forgot to write down them down): 5953, 5956 and 5958

#13

I am also able to Harvest my own txs when I spam, here are three blocks to check (there have been others but I forgot to write down them down): 5953, 5956 and 5958

Interesting. I thought that wasn't possible.
#14

5953 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, no TXes from that account inside that block…
5956 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, indeed contains tx, hashes:


    [li]ca961f3bccaeb3b033342adfd8dffaee445266ccd5bbd1c3231f1f6496e4e97a,[/li]


    5958 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, indeed contains tx, hashes:

      [li]44f5c38af762b189728ff94e619f3db164f804fc40637d0115643aeb8de4d8bf, [/li]
      [li]46bc3405d3dd32947d47a902ad734f0e703207f4349b68d4d616d0dfc5fb1b7b,[/li]


      Definitely a bug (definitely deserves prize), we're gonna verify why it has happened. (most likely after introducing multisig).

      Sorry, I hastened to answer. It's ok if you harvest a block with TXes where you are RECIPIENT (for a very simple reason, I think you can figure it out).

      But I have said it deserves a prize, and I cannot take my word back, you shall receive it :slight_smile: So thanks for being watchful!
#15



Depends, what you're actually asking for.

If you ask how PoI itself is protected, there are 3 important elements, but the details will be in whitepaper.
(actually if you were following BTT thread and forum you probably know, what are those 3 elements)

I can't find it. Why don't you link or summerize it? It's no secret ;)


I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM


Those are things PoI relies on, but they themselves wouldn't protect you from sybill attacks.

One of the elements (that's been mentioned on nxt forum) is "vested balance". For the rest you need to wait for white paper.

(Also it's funny how number 3 is important for nem on multiple levels).
#16

5953 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, no TXes from that account inside that block...
5956 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, indeed contains tx, hashes:

    [li]ca961f3bccaeb3b033342adfd8dffaee445266ccd5bbd1c3231f1f6496e4e97a,[/li]


    5958 harvested by  TA37TOHXBBCCRWAJBHI66CUUCATTTG7QOOHHS5FG, indeed contains tx, hashes:

      [li]44f5c38af762b189728ff94e619f3db164f804fc40637d0115643aeb8de4d8bf, [/li]
      [li]46bc3405d3dd32947d47a902ad734f0e703207f4349b68d4d616d0dfc5fb1b7b,[/li]


      [s]Definitely a bug[/s] (definitely deserves prize), [s]we're gonna verify why it has happened. (most likely after introducing multisig).[/s]

      Sorry, I hastened to answer. It's ok if you harvest a block with TXes where you are RECIPIENT (for a very simple reason, I think you can figure it out).

      But I have said it deserves a prize, and I cannot take my word back, you shall receive it :) So thanks for being watchful!
Sorry, my bad. After taking a closer look at block 5956, I see that my main harvesting wallet didn't send any txs in that block but there are txs in there from my other three wallets that I spam from. Not sure if anything can be done to prevent this.
#17



I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM

Yes, I think that's true. But is that how sybil attacks are avoided?
That I'm not sure but from using my spam bots as well as watching other nodes on the network I think that it would only take 3 or 4 nodes working together to increase their importance. During the last beta I only had 15 million NEM but at one point I was able to increase importance to 0.35%. I am trying something new this time but the results are not as good.

Importance of all harvesting accounts should be 1, so maybe more accs are harvesting now. (Or is it that importance of all accounts should be 1?)
#18




I think it's:
How much NEM you have
Who you send your NEM to
Who sends you NEM

Yes, I think that's true. But is that how sybil attacks are avoided?
That I'm not sure but from using my spam bots as well as watching other nodes on the network I think that it would only take 3 or 4 nodes working together to increase their importance. During the last beta I only had 15 million NEM but at one point I was able to increase importance to 0.35%. I am trying something new this time but the results are not as good.

Importance of all harvesting accounts should be 1, so maybe more accs are harvesting now. (Or is it that importance of all accounts should be 1?)


I think it's importance of all accounts not just harvesting accounts but I'm not certain.
#19

Sorry, my bad. After taking a closer look at block 5956, I see that my main harvesting wallet didn't send any txs in that block but there are txs in there from my other three wallets that I spam from. Not sure if anything can be done to prevent this.


OFC not, every single account have diffefent importance.

To answer other question ALL importances sum to 1.
#20

But I am still getting my own txs fees back from my other spam accounts, so all a person needs to do is have one account with a high POI and have other account(s) to send out txs and there is a chance you will be able to recover those txs fess. When it comes to spamming those txs fees add up.