Proposed usage for unclaimed / socks

General Discussion
#21

I think dumping stakes to create silver coins isn't a good idea, IMHO.  I do think it's a good idea for a private person to do it and create NEMsilver or NEMgold, but not with community funds.


That's is a controversial idea even among the core team. What we currently aggreed on is to see how much NEM will be worth after launch and if it doesn't cost a lot of stakes we'll do it otherwise the idea will be dropped. Like I said though, this is a proposal that was drafted by parts of the team so we might still drop it completely.
#22

I would rather stakes be used for making the user interface world class.  The mobile app has to be right up there as well.  Both of these will pay major dividends in terms of usability and adoption. 

I have chatted with everyone involved with supporting the Altnemo plan and I definitely trust everyone as much as I can via chat and instant messaging.  For me, it's not about trusting anyone, just weighing the risk reward.  I think NEM will be the next big thing and just want it to launch perfectly.

The scenario I see, the worst case scenario, is we launch and market values our stakes less than what everyone paid on the AE.  My stake was essentially free, so I lose nothing if we fumble any part of launch, but you end up having a "scandle" on your hands if anyone can poke holes in the legality of selling stakes.  Are those able to give their shipping address to the mint or whomever will ship the coins liable if 100% of the proceeds do or do not go toward the silver purchase? 

I realize we are receiving them for "free" but of course nothing is free.  We are all paying by having those NEM now on the open market and diluting the value.  Right now, $30-50 of silver doesn't seem like a lot since we are valuing each stake at 2+ BTC.  Again, if that valuation changes in one direction, it will be a much larger percentage. 

The pros are we create a tangible asset, potentially lasting for eons, that can be redeemed or just traded on the exchange.  We also create another image, other than the Cassisius Coins, for our cryptocurrency. 

Who will hold the tangible assets if they are not redeemed?  How long can they be redeemed?  Won't the tradable asset value eventually go to zero as many, if not most, won't ever be redeemed?  Who will pay to maintain the physical location of the coins?

I apologize in advance if all of these questions have already been answered somewhere else.  Didn't want to hijack the thread, just trying to be devil's advocate so if we do the silver coins, its done as flawlessly as possible.   

#23

Shawn: the coins will only be ordered if the NEM mkt cap is large enough to support the order within around 100 stakes. Otherwise those stakes will go to something else. There should be no legal liability to anyone as the coins are a gift and not a purchase by the individuals who receive them.

#24

About node rewards:

How do we measure node contributions?
Just based on uptime?
Should version update speed be taken into account?    And total node availability?
We should reward carefully maintained nodes more.


How that'll work isn't 100% clear yet. What you are suggesting will defintely be hard (or impossible) to implement in a decentralized manner.
#25

Shawn: the coins will only be ordered if the NEM mkt cap is large enough to support the order within around 100 stakes. Otherwise those stakes will go to something else. There should be no legal liability to anyone as the coins are a gift and not a purchase by the individuals who receive them.

So 100 NEM stakes have to be ~ $180,000 so 1 NEM stake has to be ~ $1,800 correct? Seems possible, but:
The NEM stakes will have to get sold slowly (to avoid a crash). What happens when you are at 50 % and the price goes down significantly? What happens with the fiat money then? There has to be a plan for every situation.
#26


Shawn: the coins will only be ordered if the NEM mkt cap is large enough to support the order within around 100 stakes. Otherwise those stakes will go to something else. There should be no legal liability to anyone as the coins are a gift and not a purchase by the individuals who receive them.

So 100 NEM stakes have to be ~ $180,000 so 1 NEM stake has to be ~ $1,800 correct? Seems possible, but:
The NEM stakes will have to get sold slowly (to avoid a crash). What happens when you are at 50 % and the price goes down significantly? What happens with the fiat money then? There has to be a plan for every situation.


There is a plan for converting NEM into FIAT without selling a single NEM on an exchange.
We'll have to see how it works though and if this will be ready in time.
But also we're not complete retards so we'll obviously keep things like that in mind ;)
#27

;D
I know you and devs aren't complete retards… What I meant was that it has to be clear for the public what happens with fiat money since there is no multisig for fiat. I was talking about transparency of things to the public etc. before something happens.

#28

I think 1-2% must be for NEM faucets  - no serious coin without faucet and popular coins like Dogecoin have many faucets because they are  popular.

#29

;D
I know you and devs aren't complete retards... What I meant was that it has to be clear for the public what happens with fiat money since there is no multisig for fiat. I was talking about transparency of things to the public etc. before something happens.


We'll probably only convert NEM to anything else if we need to. Obviously we'd prefer to pay external ressources with NEM. So we won't have FIAT lying around. The only currency that should be "lying around" in funds is NEM and that will be safe and sound protected by multi-sig ;)
#30

I am talking about the process of converting NEM into fiat for ordering the silver coins. This process probably takes some days/weeks(?). (If not, please tell me how it can be done without risking a crash.)

If it takes days/weeks, the question is: What happens with the fiat money which was converted so far (over days/weeks), when the NEM price goes down so much that the desired amount of fiat cannot be achieved?

#31

I am talking about the process of converting NEM into fiat for ordering the silver coins. This process probably takes some days/weeks(?). (If not, please tell me how it can be done without risking a crash.)

If it takes days/weeks, the question is: What happens with the fiat money which was converted so far (over days/weeks), when the NEM price goes down so much that the desired amount of fiat cannot be achieved?


That particular case might be a special one (as AltNemo will be involved). Not sure how that'll be handled.
#32

I am talking about the process of converting NEM into fiat for ordering the silver coins. This process probably takes some days/weeks(?). (If not, please tell me how it can be done without risking a crash.)

If it takes days/weeks, the question is: What happens with the fiat money which was converted so far (over days/weeks), when the NEM price goes down so much that the desired amount of fiat cannot be achieved?


The fiat will be kept until enough money to order the coins is obtained. NEM only needs a very moderate market cap to pay for the coins, so we will just wait if the price goes down.
#33

A part of the core team sat together today and discussed what to do with the unclaimed stakes and the stakes taken from socks.
Below is a proposal listing what to do with the unclaimed stakes and socks, giving percentages for each proposal. These have not been agreed upon by the entire team and will most likely be subject to change. However, we feel it's important to also get feedback from the community.

[u]Three requests:[/u]
Please keep comments constructive !
Don't ask for exact numbers - we don't have them yet !
Don't tell us to launch instead of thinking about this stuff !

[u]~ 10%  node rewards[/u]
10% shall be used to reward people that run nodes. 10% would be enough for rewarding 100K NEM per day for 3 years, for people who run nodes.
 
[u]~ 10%  silver coins[/u]
About 10% shall be used to give each stakeholder the possibility to get a physical silver NEM coin from the Perth Mint. The coins would be issued as assets and can either be sold for on the AE or redeemed for an actual NEM silver coin.

[u]~ 45%  community fund with strict governance[/u]
The majority of the unclaimed and sock stakes, i.e. 45%, shall be put in a community fund as a decentralized autonomous organization. This fund would be used for projects that the community deems worthy. Anyone could come and request funding, and if the community feels it is a worthy project that will help NEM then the project can get funding. The exact governance for this fund is still to be discussed (dev veto, how many people in charge, who are those people, etc...) https://forum.ournem.com/ideas/nem-community-fund-(aka-nemtopia)/ outlines the basic idea.

[u]~ 2.5% mobile app[/u]
NEM will need a mobile app in order to reach average users. We're already in contact with a company and 2.5 % would be enough to develop a first class mobile app for NEM.

[u]~ 32.5 % future redistribution projects[/u]
The first question that comes up is probably, "What the hell are redistribution projects?" What is meant by this is that we want to fund projects that will ultimately "give back" to the community and the ecosystem: the creation of sustainable loops (NEM ecosystem creation). Projects that will drive NEM further and therefore raise it's value. This could be actually giving out NEM to stakeholders or creating a NEM village. The exact governance for this fund is also still to be discussed but it will most likely be a mix of core team and community. Transparency and multi-sig use of funds are key. THIS FUND WILL NOT GO INTO THE POCKETS OF OUR DEVS!!!



I think it would be a good idea to allocate some to people with the word 'Wirral' in their name.





or 'Nick'


just sayin'
#34

Disapprove.

I'm "voting" for 100% redestribution between stakeholders, automatically increased reward for harvesters (more people'll spend, more fees to collect, but only if network is active on daily-basis) and everyone who want to start a fundraising for development can with two clicks at forum do so. Then stakeholders'll decide: should they invest in such thing or not and how much if.

#35

i vote for:

70% stakeholder redistribution
10% mobile app development
10% community fund
10% rewarding nodes

Regards

#36

i vote for:

70% stakeholder redistribution
...


There is no way that will happen. Stakeholders have enough NEM and giving them more doesn't get NEM any further.
#37


[u]~ 45%  community fund with strict governance[/u]
The majority of the unclaimed and sock stakes, i.e. 45%, shall be put in a community fund as a decentralized autonomous organization. This fund would be used for projects that the community deems worthy. Anyone could come and request funding, and if the community feels it is a worthy project that will help NEM then the project can get funding. The exact governance for this fund is still to be discussed (dev veto, how many people in charge, who are those people, etc...) https://forum.ournem.com/ideas/nem-community-fund-(aka-nemtopia)/ outlines the basic idea.

[u]~ 32.5 % future redistribution projects[/u]
The first question that comes up is probably, "What the hell are redistribution projects?" What is meant by this is that we want to fund projects that will ultimately "give back" to the community and the ecosystem: the creation of sustainable loops (NEM ecosystem creation). Projects that will drive NEM further and therefore raise it's value. This could be actually giving out NEM to stakeholders or creating a NEM village. The exact governance for this fund is also still to be discussed but it will most likely be a mix of core team and community. Transparency and multi-sig use of funds are key. THIS FUND WILL NOT GO INTO THE POCKETS OF OUR DEVS!!!


Agree with most of the suggestions..

Addition for no 3 and 5, it can go hand in hand. The management team for community fund can look for reliable online / offline business for investment and distribute profit periodically for further investment into redistribution projects. The team should be allowed to earn some salary/bonus performance based for the works.

#38



[u]~ 45%  community fund with strict governance[/u]
The majority of the unclaimed and sock stakes, i.e. 45%, shall be put in a community fund as a decentralized autonomous organization. This fund would be used for projects that the community deems worthy. Anyone could come and request funding, and if the community feels it is a worthy project that will help NEM then the project can get funding. The exact governance for this fund is still to be discussed (dev veto, how many people in charge, who are those people, etc...) https://forum.ournem.com/ideas/nem-community-fund-(aka-nemtopia)/ outlines the basic idea.

[u]~ 32.5 % future redistribution projects[/u]
The first question that comes up is probably, "What the hell are redistribution projects?" What is meant by this is that we want to fund projects that will ultimately "give back" to the community and the ecosystem: the creation of sustainable loops (NEM ecosystem creation). Projects that will drive NEM further and therefore raise it's value. This could be actually giving out NEM to stakeholders or creating a NEM village. The exact governance for this fund is also still to be discussed but it will most likely be a mix of core team and community. Transparency and multi-sig use of funds are key. THIS FUND WILL NOT GO INTO THE POCKETS OF OUR DEVS!!!


Agree with most of the suggestions..

Addition for no 3 and 5, it can go hand in hand. The management team for community fund can look for reliable online / offline business for investment and distribute profit periodically for further investment into redistribution projects. The team should be allowed to earn some salary/bonus performance based for the works.

#39

as long as we dont do the "silver coin thing" im ok…

-how help physical silver coins the nem ecosystem?
-the nem-fiat change to buy the coins will drop the price. everybody who says it will not simply ignores trading rules.
-who controlls the real costs for buying the silver coins compared to the fiat exchanged? will this be documented transparent online?

regards

#40

I don't think I understand what you are proposing. Can you explain in more detail?


Example

1] Community fund allocation can be use to fund another projects, something from crowdfunding, crowdsource. Or lend to small business in developing countries like microfunding, kiva.org.

i) step - sell community fund > fiat. The amount will be used to fund businesses and projects, which will generate return for longer lasting assets... and the profit will then

- convert back to NEM = buy back shares, (dedicated trader, buying selling fund)
- to fund infracstructure e.g main node, block explorer etc
- to fund further development - e.g marketplace, messaging system etc. (hire more developers, by fiat/nem)

To ensure integrity, every year / agreed period, a new team will be nominated / rotation / voted by NEMbers. This will help to increase NEM value and bring more holders/members overtime. Every person involve will be compensated base on performance / bonus / salary by fiat / nem.

This in turn can cause NEM to become like company and will need incporation and tax valuation.

If somewhere along the road, NEM become very valuable, like hundreds of millions... we could form a corporation, where NEM can be use like a share units, something like bitshares is doing.. and then go buy bigger entities, like hotels... or shipyard.. or something stupid..  :D.. Anyway, this is just a suggestion, it require a lot of work to accomplish, I hope someone interested in this and will pick up pieces as we go along...

Hope it is a bit clear now..  :D