Total number of coins

Ideas
#21





wow...just wow.

If you don't want 4 billion then burn some after launch.
imho we're sure as hell not going to raise the supply now.

Totally agree and totally pointless poll..

I disagree. A legitimate concern has been raised by a Nemster about the REAL perception of the number 4 by Asian people. The issuing amount is 4 billion so its that number Asians will have in there minds so taking a few away or adding a few on wont change anything.
I think we need to cater for the Asians if we want NEM to succeed.
There seem to be more reasons for 8 than 4 billion. Jaguar has said it is very easy to change the starting amount.Just because it has always been 4 B doesnt mean that it cant change if there are reasonable reasons to do it.


Changin the amouint is one thing. Doubling the amount especially this close to launch is imho nothing but - sorry to be so blunt - idiotic.
It's also not like the first thing people will hear about it is that there are 4 billion. It won't show up anywhere. Burn a single NEM after launch and it won't even show up on cmc.
People have put a price on NEMStake with a total of 4 billion in mind. If we double that now some will know and will immediatly lower their price. Others won't know and will think that it's just NEM sucking. It will do nothing but raise havoc.
I'm all for giving the community a voice but some decision shouldn't be up for vote.
So everyone was against a very minor and slow inflation but doulbing the supply willy nilly is cool ?


Did I get a "smite" because I supported 8 billion ? :o I don't think 8 billion release will raise any havoc and it is definitely cooler than 4 billion. There is only ONE chance of setting up the total release so it is better to consider all aspects of it carefully.


- smite ... yes, you can get very easily a smite here  :-X

- 4  or 8
  yes, also I would go with 8 ... there is no reason why to take any risk - even with numbers, which can be rounded up... and then comes the 4 again.
I do not get the comment about inflation... isn't it so that if the amount of NEMcoins is doubled, then also every stake has a double amount of money. I think there is no significant inflation, because the market cap would remain quite the same (or I am misunderstanding something?)

With the change of 4 to 8 would be avoided a risk ... and got more coins to be shared (what will be necessary in the beginning - it is easier to share whole coins than its fractions) ... and
the change can be possible;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9240272#msg9240272

#22






wow...just wow.

If you don't want 4 billion then burn some after launch.
imho we're sure as hell not going to raise the supply now.

Totally agree and totally pointless poll..

I disagree. A legitimate concern has been raised by a Nemster about the REAL perception of the number 4 by Asian people. The issuing amount is 4 billion so its that number Asians will have in there minds so taking a few away or adding a few on wont change anything.
I think we need to cater for the Asians if we want NEM to succeed.
There seem to be more reasons for 8 than 4 billion. Jaguar has said it is very easy to change the starting amount.Just because it has always been 4 B doesnt mean that it cant change if there are reasonable reasons to do it.


Changin the amouint is one thing. Doubling the amount especially this close to launch is imho nothing but - sorry to be so blunt - idiotic.
It's also not like the first thing people will hear about it is that there are 4 billion. It won't show up anywhere. Burn a single NEM after launch and it won't even show up on cmc.
People have put a price on NEMStake with a total of 4 billion in mind. If we double that now some will know and will immediatly lower their price. Others won't know and will think that it's just NEM sucking. It will do nothing but raise havoc.
I'm all for giving the community a voice but some decision shouldn't be up for vote.
So everyone was against a very minor and slow inflation but doulbing the supply willy nilly is cool ?


Did I get a "smite" because I supported 8 billion ? :o I don't think 8 billion release will raise any havoc and it is definitely cooler than 4 billion. There is only ONE chance of setting up the total release so it is better to consider all aspects of it carefully.


- smite ... yes, you can get very easily a smite here  :-X

- 4  or 8
  yes, also I would go with 8 ... there is no reason why to take any risk - even with numbers, which can be rounded up... and then comes the 4 again.
I do not get the comment about inflation... isn't it so that if the amount of NEMcoins is doubled, then also every stake has a double amount of money. I think there is no significant inflation, because the market cap would remain quite the same (or I am misunderstanding something?)

With the change of 4 to 8 would be avoided a risk ... and got more coins to be shared (what will be necessary in the beginning - it is easier to share whole coins than its fractions) ... and
the change can be possible;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg9240272#msg9240272


Market cap would not change so I think that argument does not really hold much weight. The only thing that concerns me is some of the potential confusion changing the amount might cause at this late point in the game, but hopefully if we do decide to go this route it won't cause any issues.
#23

If I were asian i would find this thread offensive....I think.

Also I forgot to tell you....In my country the word for death sounds amazingly similar to NEM. Please change your name or my entire culture will not use NEM.


LOL

Here in Italy every number from 1 to 90 has its own meaning:
1 Italy
2 daughter
3 cat
4 pig
5 hand
6 vagina
7 jar
8 virgin Mary
9 progeny
10 beans
11 mice
12 soldier
13 Saint Antony
14 drunk man
15 boy
16 butt
17 accident
18 blood
19 laugh
20 feast
21 naked woman
22 mad man
23 dumb man
24 day befere holiday
25 Christmas
26 little Ann
27 urinal
28 breasts
29 penis
30 tennent's testicles
...

It happens that random numbers make people laugh.
#24


If I were asian i would find this thread offensive....I think.

Also I forgot to tell you....In my country the word for death sounds amazingly similar to NEM. Please change your name or my entire culture will not use NEM.


LOL

Here in Italy every number from 1 to 90 has its own meaning:
1 Italy
2 daughter
3 cat
4 pig
...


We surely take those numbers seriously ... eh, but wait... Italy has only 60 million people. Too few. Asia has 4400 M.  Sorry, Italy's numbers are not counted in ;)
#25


If I were asian i would find this thread offensive....I think.

Also I forgot to tell you....In my country the word for death sounds amazingly similar to NEM. Please change your name or my entire culture will not use NEM.


LOL

Here in Italy every number from 1 to 90 has its own meaning:
1 Italy
2 daughter
3 cat
4 pig
5 hand
6 vagina
7 jar
8 virgin Mary
9 progeny
10 beans
11 mice
12 soldier
13 Saint Antony
14 drunk man
15 boy
16 butt
17 accident
18 blood
19 laugh
20 feast
21 naked woman
22 mad man
23 dumb man
24 day befere holiday
25 Christmas
26 little Ann
27 urinal
28 breasts
29 penis
30 tennent's testicles
...

It happens that random numbers make people laugh.


With 8, it is holier than thou! God bless NEM. Mother Mary comes to you!
#26

8 billion NEM for 8 billion people.  A new economy market. 

Guess you can know which way I voted.

#27

So… will this poll be taken into consideration, or is it just for the lulz?

#28

EDIT: nevermind
Hope a result will be best for NEM

#29

Why not make it 2b , just leave it alone . or is their a scam going on ? :cry:

#30

Why not make it 2b , just leave it alone . or is their a scam going on ? :'(


Scam and how? are you serious? People will get the equal share if its 4 billion 8 billion or 100 billion.
#31

This change is cosmetic and everything scales up.  So your NEMstake worth $1000 would still be $1000 on launch.

As well the 1 million NEM is problematic.  It means if I do one transaction then I'm no longer a nemillionare

#32

This change is cosmetic and everything scales up.  So your NEMstake worth $1000 would still be $1000 on launch.

As well the 1 million NEM is problematic.  It means if I do one transaction then I'm no longer a nemillionare


I bought a little extra NEM just so I could give some away and make some transactions and still retain nemillionaire status. :P

But even better if we get double for 8 billion!
#33

Such wow, much NEM millionaire.  :slight_smile:

#34

8 billion NEM for 8 billion people.  A new economy market. 

Guess you can know which way I voted.

Though in theory, 1 NEM per 1 person is possible.
Perfect egalitarianism!
#35

I'm listening you all!!!

8)

#36

I am very sorry to leave this post.
Two days ago, there was a terrible safety accident during K pop concert in Korea.
At least 15 audiences died by that accident.
I pray for the repose of 15 person's soul.
The name of the girl group singing/dancing at the stage at the accident moment was…
<4 Minutes>

#37

This change is cosmetic and everything scales up.  So your NEMstake worth $1000 would still be $1000 on launch.

As well the 1 million NEM is problematic.  It means if I do one transaction then I'm no longer a nemillionare


I gave a chuckle when reading this but it is very true.

From a psychological perspective people like to have things on even number of 1, 10, 100, or 1000.  When I buy coins I usually aim for one of these numbers or I aim for .001%, .01% or .1%.  You get the point. 

If we make it so people have 2 million, this will definitely encourage original stake holders to sell some of their stake off.  Originally they were only going to have 1 million anyway, so why not sell some. (I know their original percentage hasn't changed but many people won't see it that way)  But as Taunsew mentions, dipping below the 1 million mark is a hard psychological line for people to break. 

So the question is, do we want original stakeholders dumping some coins on launch?  If we do, make it 8 billion and there will be a lot more dumping.  If it is 4 billion, people will be more likely to hold.  Having an even 1 million for so many reason culturally will mean people will not sell. 

A lot of new money coming in to NEM will be aiming for the 10,000 or 100,000 NEM mark too.  By increasing the total supply they can get there in theory twice as fast, but in reality much faster because of the extra dumping. 
#38

This change is cosmetic and everything scales up.  So your NEMstake worth $1000 would still be $1000 on launch.

As well the 1 million NEM is problematic.  It means if I do one transaction then I'm no longer a nemillionare

After reading TaunSew's post, I became to realize why I planned not to sell my  NEMcoin after launch.
Maybe , I have wanted to be remain as a NEMillionaire.
The desire for a millionaire is universal.
Many other NEMbers may be in same situation with me.
By total 8 billion NEM coin, every stakeholders can get 2 million NEM coin.
And, even though they sell half of their NEM, they are still  NEMillionaires.
Selling NEM help wide distribution, even though temporary price down may happen in the beginning.
But, in the long run, it will help NEM's prosperity and high price by universal use and popularity.
#39

OK. I haven't really given my 2 cents thought on this except from a couple of jests in mention. I decided that to give it a real go it has to have some form of precedence to make a reasonable hypothesis.

Ripple is capitalized at about $0.5B, Stellar about $0.2B (see http://bravenewcoin.com/price/price-index/)

Doge is capitalized at about $24m and Darkcoin at about $11m.

Other than Dark coin, the rest have close to 100B coins.

Another observation worth noting at http://bravenewcoin.com/price/price-index/ under the BNC2.0 tab, one will realise that 8 out of the 10 listed are beyond $5m market cap. That should mean that NEM cannot be too far off upon listing.

With the above in mind, let's consider the crypto economy. It is yet to be sophisticated and is very much "man over machine". What this means is that pricing is emotional and sometimes with a bit of logic involved. It is very much not machine calculated. Decisions made are myopic in nature without much consideration for the market capitalisation and situation. Most of all, it has no measurement metrics like PE, etc. The only measurement is volatility,  liquidity and sometimes crypto world events, like a Mt. Gox thing.

It is also very personal and hardly much talked about on a dinner table or over a beer, unlike the wall street kind of setting. Hence, most people work alone behind the screen, deciphering and digesting information from what they read. Many still base on "general sentiments".

On that basis, whether a coin is worth 0.002 or 0.0002 it does not make much difference as it is too small to consider. But in terms of factor, this is 10 times.

Ripples is worth 0.005 while Stellar is worth 0.002 But they have almost 50 times that many coins as BTSX and NXT (100 times).

However, Ripple's pricing is about 5 times less than that of BTSX and NXT. Further, Stellar being a new coin is about 12 times less than that of BTSX and NXT.

Ripple  <-> BTSX, 5 times less 50 times more coins. Factor of 10+
Ripple <-> Nxt, 5 times less 100 times more coins. Factor of 20+

Stellar <-> BTSX, 12 times less 50 times more coins. Factor of 4+
Stellar <-> NXT, 11 times less 100 times more coins, Factor of 9+

On a level playing field they all have their own strengths and hence they should not differ much in value. But the sheer number of coins is the deciding factor.

Barring time, of which Ripple is the oldest of the lot, Stellar is so much more capitalized. Why is this so? Is quantity of coins the deciding factor?

Given this scenario, I personally believe that if we were to release at 4 billion coins, the market price may end up at about 0.0025 per coin, translating to $10m. Further, when the AE is launched this will probably hover around 0.015 per coin, i.e., 60 milllion.

This is so because it has the effect of the 4 times more coins than NXt and not how much more superior it is compared to NXT (although this is another matter for discussion and I don't wish to bring it into this discussion).

So, what happens if we have 80 billion coins like the quantum of Stellar and Ripple? It is my opinion that the value may end up as 0.001 or close to that, giving it a valuation of $80m.

My rationale - 0.001 is too small to debate over and people will just hop in.

Now, onto the airdrop. Do not write it off. The airdrop is the cause of Stellar's $200m market cap. Many may laugh at it but the fact remains that most of the crypto people are now aware of it and it has put paid to its original intention, i.e., let everybody know of its existence and bring in another 10K supporters to the coin hopefully. Never mind if 90K of the remainder (assuming it "viraled" to 100K people) have lost their wallets or not. That is immaterial. It only reduces the maximum amount that can be circulated, which is good in a way.

I would be more inclined to seriously think of an airdrop sometime after V1 or sometime when there are more things on offer. The impact would be much greater because there is real value in NEM. People therefore will want to hold on to it.

Apart from more work in logistics management, I do not think it is a real technical problem if we increase it to 8 thousand or 80 thousand NS for that matter.

So, have a serious thought about this and serious thought about why you disagree before shooting it down. Just remember, everything is a matter of conjecture at this stage. Like I said earlier, understand what you want to achieve and weigh all options including the reasons why before we make any reasonable judgement. That will make us come to consensus better.

#40

There are some good posts on BTT about the 8 billion.  The number 4 does appear to be negative in Asia.