Wrongly accused "sock puppet" accounts - Request to the community

General Discussion
#1

Dear fellow Nemsters,

my father and I are initial BT stake holders. I did every step of the redemption correctly and received the adresses and private keys - everything was fine, at least I thought so…

Month later when I was trying to import them into the wallets they showed 0 XEM. I waited a few month before I first imported them because at the time of redemption the wallet system was still a test version, so I wanted to wait until there was a final version.

A few weeks ago BloodyRrookie told me that apparently we became the victim of a last round of sock puppet elimination (I guess because I used my PC to complete the redemption process for both stakes - but of course I had to do this because my father was not able to do that, not everybody is a crypto bug, that should be clear).

I tried to explain that and offered to provide any proof they need to see that we are legit (Just as a reminder: the rule was “one stake for you and one additional for a family member” or sth…).

However BloodyRookie told me that it is too late to provide that proof and give us our rightful share because “if we did, the community would not accept that”.

I don’t accept that argumentation! I know that they had to do sth about sock puppets, but if during the (flawed) process legitimate investors get wrongly accused that should be acknowledged and fixed.

What do you guys think? I would like to open a discussion about how to handle wrongly accused investors like us - I am sure we are not the only ones!

Thanks for your time.
Best, J

BT user names and adresses given to me after successful redemtion:
Jo_ltc // https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4912380#msg4912380 // NDQOHQ-WD5JZF-AIFTNO-O2J4IU-6UFQ7V-QFT4WM-YPCE
Justin_sane.j // https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.msg4939604#msg4939604 // NB6A6S-5X3D3X-IJ2OV5-CWJODS-BBOOL4-CTO6I5-W4G2

1 Like
#2

not Jo_ltc nor Justin_sane.j aint got any stake.
If you were victim of a last round of sock puppet elimination there would have to be 3rd account whose sockpuppets these 2 account were.

something is not adding up

#3

hey, you are right we got no stakes… that is what I was trying to explain. Because they thought that I broke the rules (which I didnt) with the second account they did not give me any stakes at all. Get it now?

#4

even if you had the stakes, it is late now to convert them to xem

#5

That is the whole point of my post, it is not! I was on the final stake holder list and i redeemed those stakes. I got the two adresses mentioned above including the private keys.

The devs just decided that my accounts are sock puppet accounts and didnt give me the XEM.

#6

i am pretty sure this si NOT how sock puppets deletion worked
there is something you are not telling

It would be nice if someone responsible wrote blog post summarizing facts about these things

#7

Sadly, this has also happened to me. I helped my son-in-law finish his set up from my computer. My daughter (not the wife of the mentioned SIL) set her account up on her laptop, but from my home network so I could help her. That’s three accounts from same IP address, but all owners three adults living in separate households.

All of our accounts are empty. It wasn’t always so. Just recently we discovered this and are very disappointed. If this isn’t unfair, I’m not sure what is. Did I say disappointed?

#8

we’re not getting back to sockpuppet cleaning process, there was time to post complaints, that time is long over.

#9

Was there an effective solution for those who noticed their empty accounts and posted a “complaint” during the “time” before it was over? And were those whose accounts were emptied ever notified? And if so how?

1 Like
#10

Exactly the same thing happened to me. Me and my dad had two stakes as was allowed in the rules. But then we were accused of being sockpuppets and neither one got our stake. We didn’t do anything wrong! This is just ridiculous, and we’re certainly not the only ones to whom this happened. The community should absolutely do something to correct this.

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#11

Like what? I assure you thats it…

I wasnt! That would have been the least the devs could have done. A simple pm on BT. To me it seems a lot like they prefered to see the XEM in their “unconventional marketing” funds and so on…

All that time we were told that the most important thing is to be on the FINAL stake holder list and not to miss the redemtion. After redeeming the stakes there was no popup, message or anything that said “please come back in a few days to check if you are still part of NEM - we might decide you are a sock puppet and steal your XEM if you dont complain in a time frame of our choosing”.

The XEM were created anyway and are now stuck in various dubious “sustainability” and marketing funds - why not give them back to those people that did nothing wrong and their families and let those XEM have a postive impact on their lives?!

And who are you exactly to decide that? Dont be such a dick and just imagine that shit would have happend to you!

#12

Hello,

I posted a topic a little while ago because I also did not receive my stake. I went by XDM at bitcointalk as well.
I thought that I had set everything up properly and received my token from patmast3r and claimed it on the website provided and received my private key and account. Around that time I took an extended break from crypto as we had our second child and my wife was struggling with post-partem depression.

Over the same time that I got my NEM I helped my wife (sojouner1) get a stake and helped her redeem it. I also sent NXT to two others (babyK & lilSunBeam) so that they could get involved in cyrpto.

I convinced my wife not to exchange her NEM for a NXT token and sell it as I thought that NEM had long term growth potential. I think that the two others that I helped get going traded for NXT as they thought it was a more sure thing.

Neither my wife nor I received any NEM into our accounts. our accounts are
NAPYV6-XNFC5K-FLUWSG-HNESJB-3MEJ6F-JOUVSV-ZKH6 and
ND2PJK-TKBDQJ-DN72PZ-W3XTLZ-DUS2ZI-V7CCXZ-2ZDU.

I showed up on one of the possible sockpuppet lists early on and addressed it with this post on bitcoin talk. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=496112.msg5662245#msg5662245 while it did not get directly addressed at the time I saw this response from patmast3r about there being nothing to worry about if you were in a group of less than five.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=496112.msg5825366#msg5825366 I also was told by somebody that I had nothing to worry about since I addressed it. I can’t remember who. We then received our tokens later so we assumed we had nothing to worry about.

I am willing to prove that we are real people if needed by taking pictures with our account numbers or something.

The next point is that the period for addressing theses issues is closed. I can understand not wanting to deal with a pile of people who try to claim that they need a piece of the pie now that things are bigger. but is it worth denying people the share that they should have gotten in the first place? Also how many people are we talking about that got denied their rightful share? I have seen several posts recently about this.

If the amount of work is an issue I would be happy to give a percentage of our stake to the person who helps sort all of this out and I am guessing that the same would go for others as well. At the current prices that could make it very much worth a trusted persons time to sort out.

The money that was claimed from “Sock puppet” accounts went into the development and advertising fund right? So the money is still there correct? perhaps there would be a way for people who lost their funds to contribute a set amount of time, say 40 hours, to the development or marketing of NEM to reclaim the share that they should have gotten.

I do not know who is in charge of this process but please consider some options for those of us who had our stakes wrongfully taken. Also consider the good will that would be gained by making things right.

Thank you for your time.

1 Like
#13

There are no chances to get stakes. The process finished over a year ago. There was a long period to claim stakes and or protest if their name was not on the stakeholders list leading up to launch.

#14

As NEM keeps growing this issue won’t go away if it’s not dealt with. It will continue popping up and NEM will always be the coin with stakes taken away from some original stakeholders because of wrong accusations, and I’m sure it will do lots of damage in the long run if we just try to sweep the issue under the rug. You certainly still have the data that was used to find the sock puppets, so let those who feel that their stakes were taken away wrongly contact you and correct the mistakes. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t do this, since it’s a win-win for everyone.

It’s a completely different case with those who didn’t claim their stakes on time, since the rules were clear from the beginning what you had to do to get the stake. But the sock puppet accusations happened on some forum post without even messaging those who were affected. It’s completely understandable that not everyone followed every single post on the forums so that they could have found out about these accusations and complained in time.

#15

If there was any interest in NEM then, there wouldn’t have been such problems. It was because they were worth nothing that the socks did not bother. People are now coming back because they see value.

There were people who complained and there was a protracted discussion on this. Eventually, those who proved that they were not socks, got their stakes back. But sadly, now, after almost 16 months, and when the XEM is worth so much more, people are coming back to say that they were “wrongly” classified as socks because they did it for themselves and for their whole village on one IP address and one computer.

It has been decided that we won’t go back and revisit this issue anymore. NEM is made up of volunteers. They come, they serve, and they go. There are greater things to do than to micro manage - and to answer to such requests - which presumably resulted in the current high value now. Most of our current energy is channeled to bringing NEM to the next stage and the next after that. It is unfortunate that hard stands will have to be taken. It is hoped that you will still find investing in NEM exciting and beneficial. If not, we may like to wish you good luck. In running a project like this, there are bound to be dissatisfied or disgruntled people. We have learned to accept that and applied the 80:20 rule where we will want to satisfy the 80% and forget about the the 20%. Compassionate we may want to be, but the reality us, we will never satisfy all.

And to claim that there was no notice, please take the pleasure of digging through the Bitcoin Talk. You should find lengthy discussions there.

#16

It’s very presumptuous on your part or anyone’s part to judge the interest in NEM and the reasons why some may have put it on the backburner. Some people are holders. Is that forbidden? Was it a condition of the initial distribution that one must check back at regular intervals or contribute to the community? I was a very active participant in the Nxt community in the early days and even participated initially in the NEM logo development. The reason that I even had other accounts on my IP address was my enthusiasm for NEM that I shared with others.

I regretfully needed to pull back my participation in all crypto interests to focus on my real life business. Did i need a written excuse?

Checking back into my NXT accounts after all those months, all of my coins are still there! And no one accused me of lack of interest when I popped back with a comment on the forum.

I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around the missing NEM, the judgement of our personal situations, the unwritten pre-conditons of participation and the unwillingness to listen.

1 Like
#17

Now it is nearly impossible to prove that socks were wrongly accused.

Imagine I have created 10 sock puppet accounts and claimed 10 stakes. It was discovered and my stakes were deleted. At the time, finding 10 people who would claim that accounts were not sock puppets, but I helped those people with getting into crypto was super hard, because stake was worth nothing.

Now, on the other hand, it is SUPER EASY to find random 10 people to claim that, because 1 stake is worth $26000!!

If NEM gives 1 stake to “wrongly accused” sock puppet back, EVERY SINGLE sock puppet would tell it was “wrongly accused”…

NEM community should be generous, forgiving and helping, but opening this issue now would be unwise, unfair to stakeholder that played according to rules (and actually did care) and contraproductive.

#18

It is funny how this topic comes up every time the price rises. But seriously guys, it is just too late. So much time has passed since then and there was already so much discussion. Also, there was plenty time to do all the necessary things to receive a stake. And then there was plenty time for complaints afterwards.

I did not receive a stake because I missed the deadline. But the price of XEM was VERY low for a long time and it was possible to buy XEM for the price of Lollypops.

So, what I am saying is, you need to get over it. You can’t just sign up somewhere and be gone for two years and then come back and expect everything to work itself out.

#19

I understand the viewpoint of wanting to be done with all off this and move onto other things. I feel the same way. I would like to thank those of you who provided the reasons for your thoughts of just closing the matter instead of just saying “its over get over it”.

I do have a few questions that I would like answered before I drop this though.

How many people were eliminated from the final stakeholder list? rajc stated that EVERY Single sock puppet would claim that it is wrongly accused. how many people would that be to sort through? How much time would it take? I do not know how many people are extremely wealthy on this forum but $26000 is a lot of money. You could pay someone for 2,600 hours of work at $10 an hour to sort through this for the cost of one stake. I fail to see how it would be difficult to find someone trustworthy to take the time to sort this through for a percentage of stakes returned.

As far as the topic coming up as the price rises it only makes sense. In my case after my wife and I were on the final stakeholder list and we got our wallets set up we thought that everything was taken care of. I only had access to my work computer at that point and did not want to download the wallet onto it. So we just checked the price every month or so and did not see a reason to sell. So we did not download our wallets until this recent price pump as this seemed a good time to sell a portion as the price is high and we are expecting our third child in August and needed the money to prepare. we were shocked and horrified that our balances were 0. That is also why we did not buy more when it was cheep. We thought we had full stakes and did not need any more.

As far as being gone for a length of time and expecting things to work out, I still have my NXT, a partial bitcoin and a scattering of other coins. Why was it strange to expect that I would have my NEM as well? I addressed the issue as soon as I realized I did not have it.

When it is stated that NEM is made up of volunteers and does not have the time nor energy to sort this out anymore. Would it help if my wife and I contributed 10% of our stakes to the person or persons who help prove or disprove that we are not in fact sock puppets? That would be nearly 5000 dollars. Even if it took 100 hours to get this sorted out that would equal 50 dollars an hour, far from volunteer work! I do not understand this argument.

One of the problems of crypto currency in general right now is how unforgiving it is of mistakes or misinformation. Until we can take steps to start solving this it will be far out of reach of the average person and general acceptance. If this can be resolved I would be quite willing to post topics on bitcoin talk and the nxt forum about how awesome the NEM community was in fixing a mistake that happened a year ago. Also I would be willing to bring it to out local paper. I am quite sure that it would be very good PR and an interesting human interest piece about how NEM helped a family who is expecting their 3rd child recover their lost funds. I would not be surprised if others would be willing to do similar things. It seems like the community would actually come out ahead by doing this.

Hypothetically, what would be needed to prove ownership of the stakes that were taken from those who followed the steps to reclaim and were on the final stakeholder list? Bank records? pictures? Skype conversations? There must be some way to prove that we are not puppets and that we did play by the rules.

Thanks again for you time

1 Like
#20

You said you setup your wallet in the beginning, did you not verify the initial balance at the time?

I feel your pain if legit … but I think the big concern is once 1 is given, there would be endless requests for claiming again. There was a time to state your case but its come and gone.