Multisig support in upcoming 0.5.x (IMGs)

General Discussion
#1

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#2

Very, very nice! :slight_smile:

#3

This looks great!

I am very proud of the NEM devs.  Right here you have proven yourselves.  No other coin has had multisig before launch and not just that, but NEM's multisig is a huge step up from Bitcoin multisig. 

Really good job devs!

#4

good job. im curious to use it in the new beta…

#5

Very nice !
I think we're still gonna need an MS tutorial though to point out some - potentially - unexpeted phenomena :slight_smile:

#6

cant wait for ms beta

#7

Freaking marvellous 8). This is the Pi

#8

@Gimre Great work. Looks good.  In the above example, is it right to say that Makoto did not make himself as a co-signatory? Also is it right to say that any of the co-signatory can generate a transaction to send?

#9

I can't answer perfectly but the way I understand it, Makoto is the account owner and he decided to add Bloody Rookie and gimre as partners in the account. 

And then Bloody Rookie started a transaction and then gimre also signed it.  Makoto was probably asleep and didn't see any of that happen.  Then "Lucky Guy" got the money, so it seems like it was a 2 of 3 multisig.  Makoto woke up in the morning and saw that his XEM was gone. :slight_smile:

Better only add people you trust

#10

This is really great news indeed. Crypto is in dire need of this sort of thing.

#11

I can't answer perfectly but the way I understand it, Makoto is the account owner and he decided to add Bloody Rookie and gimre as partners in the account. 

And then Bloody Rookie started a transaction and then gimre also signed it.  Makoto was probably asleep and didn't see any of that happen.  Then "Lucky Guy" got the money, so it seems like it was a 2 of 3 multisig.  Makoto woke up in the morning and saw that his XEM was gone. :-)

Better only add people you trust


actually Makoto can no longer use his accout, This indeed is CONVERSION.
Also do NOT add multisig account as one of cosignatories, this will basically cut you off from the funds, as multisig accounts aren't allowed to do anything (even cosigning...)

So right now it's N-out-of-N, but we want/need to make it m-out-of-n before the launch.

And to answer RH question, yes ANY cosignatory can issue multisig transaction.

There's small bonus, but gui won't support it now, and probably not even at launch... Actually you can make ANY transaction multisig, so i.e. you could make Importance Transfer (read: secure harvesting) as a multisig transaction : )
#12

Great, great, great stuff. I can't get over how nice this is and how easy it looks. We will still need to produce some quality tutorials and videos and such for beginners, but that I am sure is something that will be ready by the actual 1.0 launch when it comes.

Awesome stuff devs.

#13

I can see why it is essential that NEM launches with multisig.

[url=http://cointelegraph.com/news/112463/bitgo-bringing-multisignature-wallets-bank-like-security-to-bitfury]http://cointelegraph.com/news/112463/bitgo-bringing-multisignature-wallets-bank-like-security-to-bitfury
[url=http://cointelegraph.com/news/112934/brawker-the-btc-store-for-everything-implements-multisig]http://cointelegraph.com/news/112934/brawker-the-btc-store-for-everything-implements-multisig
[url=http://cointelegraph.com/news/113338/multi-sig-gems-2-big-deals-underline-new-security-standard-for-bitcoin]http://cointelegraph.com/news/113338/multi-sig-gems-2-big-deals-underline-new-security-standard-for-bitcoin
[url=http://cointelegraph.com/news/113383/amsterdam-bitcoin-hackathon-winner-discovers-way-to-remove-confirmations]http://cointelegraph.com/news/113383/amsterdam-bitcoin-hackathon-winner-discovers-way-to-remove-confirmations

Project NoRiskWallet [url=https://github.com/baleato/bitcoin-hackathon]https://github.com/baleato/bitcoin-hackathon

Impulse is a protocol for instantaneous, zero-confirmation payments, built with the security of a blockchain. [url=http://impulse.is/impulse.pdf]http://impulse.is/impulse.pdf

@9m44s to 17m35s Jeff Garzik is speaking on insant-secure transactions using multisig. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllP5dPSHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBllP5dPSHc

Multi-sig API [url=https://www.blocktrail.com/]https://www.blocktrail.com/

Multi-sig web wallet [url=https://greenaddress.it/]https://greenaddress.it/

#14

There's actually much more about multisig, but we haven't talked more, as some options are currently not done inside the UI.


    [li]cosignatories can add more cosignatories to an account[/li]
    [li]cosignatories can remove cosignatory (this has strict limitations and most likely will have even stricter)[/li]
    [li]if you don't know, "secure harvesting"/"remote harvesting" is just another transaction (more precisely importance transfer transaction), see details here: https://forum.ournem.com/technical-discussion/nis-restart-remote-harvesting/msg8918/#msg8918
    Now, what is most important is that almost any transaction can be multisig transaction, that means you could actually create "multisig importance transfer"
    [/li]


    There are also some limitations, here's first I can think of:

    Every Multisig Transaction, requires proper number of Multisig Signatures, you actually can't make multisig account X as a cosignatory of multisig account Y, in other words, Multisig Account can't create signature for different Multisig Account (that is doable ofc, but would require more resources on EVERY node, that's why we've decided NOT to do that)
#15


There are also some limitations, here's first I can think of:

Every Multisig Transaction, requires proper number of Multisig Signatures, you actually can't make multisig account X as a cosignatory of multisig account Y, in other words, Multisig Account can't create signature for different Multisig Account (that is doable ofc, but would require more resources on EVERY node, that's why we've decided NOT to do that)


What a pity. This is one aspect of a very important aspect of a distributed regional control of accounts in the corporate world. It also eliminates the possibility of people "going missing" and holding things up or lost forever. Maybe we should limit the depths to a few instead of a long chain. Possible?

If that is a real issue, may I suggest we do that instead using business rules. That can solve the problem too. "If account X signed and met conditions, then sign  account Y."

Achieves the same thing anyways.
#16

What a pity. This is one aspect of a very important aspect of a distributed regional control of accounts in the corporate world. It also eliminates the possibility of people "going missing" and holding things up or lost forever. Maybe we should limit the depths to a few instead of a long chain. Possible?


I think you misunderstood me a bit...

I think your case should be solved in a different manner:
Central having cosignatories A, B
Regional having cosignatories X,Y

C -> R (A, B cosigns)
R -> somewhere (X,Y cosigns)
(I mean transfer of funds here ofc...)


If that is a real issue, may I suggest we do that instead using business rules. That can solve the problem too. "If account X signed and met conditions, then sign  account Y."


We'll see if that'll be feasible.
#17

Hello to all, i am new here and i want to know what multisig is and why it is so important? What Advantage i have as a normal user ? Thank you for Answer!

#18

Hi be5en5tiel,

a normal account needs one signer (and therefore one private key) to initiate a NEM transfer to another account. If that private key is disclosed to anyone, he could rob the account. Also, if the private key is lost, the NEM on that account are lost since no one can make any transfers from that account any more.

In a multisig account, more than one signer is involved when it comes to transactions for that account. You could have for example 3 signers (corresponding to 3 private keys) for the account. Even when one private key is disclosed to the public, still no one could rob the account since you need all 3 private keys to start a transaction (actually 2 private keys will be enough to make a configuration change for the account). So a multisig account is more secure than a normal account.

The multisig accounts will for example be used for the accounts that hold community funds. Those accounts will be controlled by more than one person and all persons involved will need to agree to make a transaction from such an account. A single person cannot run away with the NEM.

Bloody Rookie

#19

Thank you very much for explain it  :slight_smile:

#20


I can't answer perfectly but the way I understand it, Makoto is the account owner and he decided to add Bloody Rookie and gimre as partners in the account. 

And then Bloody Rookie started a transaction and then gimre also signed it.  Makoto was probably asleep and didn't see any of that happen.  Then "Lucky Guy" got the money, so it seems like it was a 2 of 3 multisig.  Makoto woke up in the morning and saw that his XEM was gone. :-)

Better only add people you trust


actually Makoto can no longer use his accout, This indeed is CONVERSION.
Also do NOT add multisig account as one of cosignatories, this will basically cut you off from the funds, as multisig accounts aren't allowed to do anything (even cosigning...)

So right now it's N-out-of-N, but we want/need to make it m-out-of-n before the launch.

And to answer RH question, yes ANY cosignatory can issue multisig transaction.

There's small bonus, but gui won't support it now, and probably not even at launch... Actually you can make ANY transaction multisig, so i.e. you could make Importance Transfer (read: secure harvesting) as a multisig transaction : )


This is what we call the lockbox concept, i.e., you create a lockbox where you define who can sign and broadcast the transaction on the network. Lockbox cannot be used as a signatory to another lockbox.

Just to clear up Jabo's understanding and to re-inforce Gimre's comment, a lockbox can be created by anyone. Although it remains in the person's wallet, it remains logically detached if the person who created it is not a signatory. Hard to visualise, but that is what it is. It is good that we can "practice" and get acquainted with it. Come launch we are all expert multi-sig gurus. ;)

I can't see how a lockbox can ever be deleted (please correct me) and my understanding is, even if Makoto has lost his wallet, the lockbox continues to live on. There is no dependency of the lockbox on anyone's wallet. THe co-sginatories "own" the lockbox. This, I believe is unique to NEM.

Call the lockbox a bastard if you want. It has no owners except for the caretaker signatories. And if the creator is also a signatory, at least this lockbox is always in his wallet.

I have not done any discovery yet, but can a co-signatory see the balance in that lockbox?