We have recently learned that the redemption window for NEMstake has closed. Poloniex feels strongly that users who missed the window are having their investment unfairly stripped away. The asset description states: "A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of the NEM blockchain." As the NEMESIS block has not yet been generated, closing redemption at this point clearly breaks the promise made to purchasers of the NEMstake asset at the time of purchase. Furthermore, we do not see any advantage to having a redemption deadline that will invalidate over $17,000 invested in good faith.
Poloniex respectfully requests that the NEM community reconsider enforcing a deadline on NEMstake redemption.
Tristan
redemption phase was open for close to, or possibly over 6 months…? much much longer than was originally planned… i dont see how that is unfair…?
redemption phase was open for close to, or possibly over 6 months...? much much longer than was originally planned.. i dont see how that is unfair..?
It is unfair because the asset description did not say there would be any deadline, nor did it say to follow the forum. It is entirely reasonable for someone to have added NEMstake to their portfolio with the intention of redeeming it after the launch.
redemption phase was open for close to, or possibly over 6 months...? much much longer than was originally planned.. i dont see how that is unfair..?
It is unfair because the asset description did not say there would be any deadline, nor did it say to follow the forum. It is entirely reasonable for someone to have added NEMstake to their portfolio with the intention of redeeming it after the launch.
if you read the description, you also read the warning.. because it did exactly what you state that it didnt..
A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of NEM blockchain. The token can be traded down to one digit after zero (minimum unit is 1/10 of a token). Our website is www.ournem.com. Please read about NEM, NEMstake token and the conversion rules in our dedicated thread before buying NEMstake. The issuing account is NXT-J62B-CNAR-34YW-4RCFN
redemption phase was open for close to, or possibly over 6 months...? much much longer than was originally planned.. i dont see how that is unfair..?
It is unfair because the asset description did not say there would be any deadline, nor did it say to follow the forum. It is entirely reasonable for someone to have added NEMstake to their portfolio with the intention of redeeming it after the launch.
if you read the description, you also read the warning.. because it did exactly what you state that it didnt..
A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of NEM blockchain. The token can be traded down to one digit after zero (minimum unit is 1/10 of a token). Our website is www.ournem.com. Please read about NEM, NEMstake token and the conversion rules in our dedicated thread before buying NEMstake. The issuing account is NXT-J62B-CNAR-34YW-4RCFN
Only to the extent of saying 'read the forum.' However it does say: "A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of NEM blockchain" which clearly didn't happen.
What is the argument for a deadline at all?
Need to get genesis block ready… Going by that logic… We can also only distribute only 1m nem to each stake… If we have to interpret that line as absolute unwavering fact then we must also interpret every line…
Fact of the matter is, is that users had probably twice the length of time to redeem as they were going to get in the first place… And technically official launch of the blockchain isn't until V1… So should we not pay out the stakes until V1.
It's unreasonable to claim that the deadline is unfair because users had a ridiculous amount of time to claim. It was announced repeatedly over and over and over through all channels of communication… And also a message sent to all accounts that held nemstake. Also, the user has I suspect tried to deceive us by claiming to be from poloniex, whom the team has been in constant contact with and has known about redemption for months.
What about the folk who sold their stake because they were late? Would it be fair on those of we now allow others to claim?
I'm sorry but at this stage of the game that just isn't going to happen and if even an iota of interest was shown, the stake would have been redeemed at some point during the half year redemption period…
What is the advantage to having a deadline? The funds to cover unclaimed stakes could be set aside and claimed at any time.
Also, the user has I suspect tried to deceive us by claiming to be from poloniex, whom the team has been in constant contact with and has known about redemption for months.
Both busoni and I work at Poloniex. He is the owner and I am the general manager. We have been in contact with patmast3r for months. There was never discussion of a deadline. I did ask patmast3r about how to redeem, and he provided a link however, I was unable to redeem my NEM when I tried because the OSX wallet would not open properly. Neither busoni or I were aware of a deadline at any point.
Again, what advantage does the deadline have? Why prevent investors from claiming something they bought in good faith?
redemption phase was open for close to, or possibly over 6 months...? much much longer than was originally planned.. i dont see how that is unfair..?
It is unfair because the asset description did not say there would be any deadline, nor did it say to follow the forum. It is entirely reasonable for someone to have added NEMstake to their portfolio with the intention of redeeming it after the launch.
if you read the description, you also read the warning.. because it did exactly what you state that it didnt..
A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of NEM blockchain. The token can be traded down to one digit after zero (minimum unit is 1/10 of a token). Our website is www.ournem.com. Please read about NEM, NEMstake token and the conversion rules in our dedicated thread before buying NEMstake. The issuing account is NXT-J62B-CNAR-34YW-4RCFN
Only to the extent of saying 'read the forum.' However it does say: "A NEMstake token represents one million NEM receivable after the official launch of NEM blockchain" which clearly didn't happen.
What is the argument for a deadline at all?
It also says "represents one million NEM," which is also not the case anymore. Trading on the NXT AE brought a lot of complications and we should have ended it back in November instead of continuing.
We don't want to take anyone's money away, but also remember that NEM is not an investment. It is a movement and we want participants to at least be informed enough about what we are doing to be able to redeem (and NEMstake holders had over 4 months redeem!).
That being said, a lot of people screwed up entering their NEM addresses when submitting them, so what I think we will do it process people who have already complained to us when we work to fix other NEMstake holders' addresses, post launch.
- is it fair that AE holders have twice as long to claim as btt holders? what will a late claimer on btt say if AE holders had twice as long to claim as he did?
2) what would it say about nems integrity if we were to lift the deadline because employees/owner of poloniex missed the deadline and wanted it lifted?
3) a deadline had to be put in place in order to prepare for the genesis block.
4) nemstake on AE is the only asset currently that does not have multisig available to secure the funds. the devs want ALL funds linked to nem secured with multisig so that there is the least amount of risk of lost funds possible… keeping nemstake open for redemption would mean this is impossible and places the entire project at risk if nemstake account was hacked or lost.
also, if you are the owners/managers of poloniex. what does it say about poloniex's integrity if the owner and general manager come onto the forum looking for favours by announcing that you are the owners/managers so that you might have a higher chance of redeeming your stake?
using influence to sway opinion is not something that works in nem. im sorry but there is nothing that can be done.
What is the advantage to having a deadline? The funds to cover unclaimed stakes could be set aside and claimed at any time.
We are a small team and spending resources handling redemption takes away from other things we can be doing, which will hurt the long term chances of NEM succeeding.
also, if you are the owners/managers of poloniex. what does it say about poloniex's integrity if the owner and general manager come onto the forum looking for favours by announcing that you are the owners/managers so that you might have a higher chance of redeeming your stake?
We are not looking for favors- we are looking for fairness. I still don't see a reasonable explanation here for the advantage of this deadline.
I was clarifying our respective roles at Poloniex because you seemed to doubt our authenticity in a previous post.
also, if you are the owners/managers of poloniex. what does it say about poloniex's integrity if the owner and general manager come onto the forum looking for favours by announcing that you are the owners/managers so that you might have a higher chance of redeeming your stake?
We are not looking for favors- we are looking for fairness. I still don't see a reasonable explanation here for the advantage of this deadline.
I was clarifying our respective roles at Poloniex because you seemed to doubt our authenticity in a previous post.
Fairness is sticking to the deadline and not allowing you to redeem or people who sent in invalid addresses to fix them. However, that isn't the best option.
The deadline was to handle the creation of the nemesis block, which has taken over a week now because people sent in bad addresses.
The explanation:
Need to get the numbers right and finalised for genesis block
Issue of trust post launch in handling the "unclaimed" XEM
Issue of resources handling the unclaimed XEM post launch.
Issue of book-keeping post launch.
NEM is a movement and is not an organisation per se. NEM is made up of volunteers who may come and go and are not permanent "employees", so to speak.
Volunteers are rewarded nevertheless but their rewards are meaningless today because the price of XEM may be too little to talk about. But their service is a risk and reward service. They risk their time for a paltry amount in hope that the value of each XEM will go up substantially one day. So, some may be happy to earn a few Nem Stakes and then decide to leave. As a result, administrative continuity may not be there and prove to be a major problem in the future.
These are the reasons why the deadline must be and should be decided.
I'd like to hear the reasons why extended redemption for AE stakes were shutdown.
Anyone ?
(Yeah, this is backstabbing but frankly I'm done seeing the repercussions of these decisions.)
I'd like to hear the reasons why extended redemption for AE stakes were shutdown.
Anyone ?
(Yeah, this is backstabbing but frankly I'm done seeing the repercussions of these decisions.)
Answers here: https://forum.ournem.com/general-discussion/nemstake-redemption-deadline/msg13971/#msg13971
This is insane, we should treat "missing" AE people the same way as with BTT people, so give them two more months for redemption after launch.
Have anyone send any notification to guys from polo, that redemption ends?
I'd like to hear some community voices (so not: rockethead, makoto, kodty - no offence guys) before any decission will be made.
Yes it's insane, different rules for different groups.
AE group can have as many stakes as they like.
BTT group can't.
Why? The only answer I read so far was because that was the rule. Is one group more likely to dump their stake then the other? Have proof?
Now BTT group has longer to redeem their stake then the AE group. Again why? A stake is a stake.
Isn't it better to have XEM in circulation then have it sitting in some account waiting for people to decide what to do with it? The crypto world likes to see volume, it gets people talking about it, what do you think the view of NEM will be when people see 60% of it being held?
Yes it's insane, different rules for different groups.
AE group can have as many stakes as they like.
BTT group can't.
Why? The only answer I read so far was because that was the rule. Is one group more likely to dump their stake then the other? Have proof?
Now BTT group has longer to redeem their stake then the AE group. Again why? A stake is a stake.
Isn't it better to have XEM in circulation then have it sitting in some account waiting for people to decide what to do with it? The crypto world likes to see volume, it gets people talking about it, what do you think the view of NEM will be when people see 60% of it being held?
first: a comparison between AE and btt group makes no sense. On AE it was normal trading for real money, btt was initial distribution for (almost) free.
second: differences dont matter if rules are clear before and will not changed later to disadvantage of anyone (doesnt matter if rule change is better for majority).
Pat and gimre are right. We will have to discuss this internally and come to a solution as soon as possible.