Just because I feel like causing trouble ;), I'm curious what the community thinks about this issue. There are pros and cons for multiple options (and the core team is somewhat split as well), but I wanted a sanity check that what we're thinking is consistent with what the community wants.
The results of the poll are non-binding. In other words, the winning option will not necessarily be implemented, but it might be.
I'm quite curious what the results will be as well.
tbh i dont think it should be limited… the reason being… everyone knows some have many stakes… it will always be there to see in the nxt blockchain history. i just think setting a limit is only going to cause trolls to say that nem core devs are trying to cover the fact that some people claimed many stakes… its better to just leave this out in the open and let it be what it is…
im curious if there is any other reason to split up accounts other than to make the genesis distribution look better? i cant really think of one unless it makes it easier for you guys to do distribution?
if you put it into context… when the genisis happens your going to see upwards of 2000 stakes going one stake to one nem address and a handfull of larger accounts but by no means even close to the size of the accounts that got coins from nxt genesis… nor is there even close to as many larger holders…
im sure you may remember some of my previous arguments against a limit on trello so il not go into any more depth. 
disclaimer: i would have to split my nem stakes but i dont have a problem with doing that. my argument is purely based on arguments above.
im curious if there is any other reason to split up accounts other than to make the genesis distribution look better? i cant really think of one unless it makes it easier for you guys to do distribution?
If people want to consolidate their accounts, they will have to pay transaction fees. IMO, those should be a good reward for early harvesters.
im curious if there is any other reason to split up accounts other than to make the genesis distribution look better? i cant really think of one unless it makes it easier for you guys to do distribution?
If people want to consolidate their accounts, they will have to pay transaction fees. IMO, those should be a good reward for early harvesters.
ah that's a good point.. fees are going to be mental early on on with people sending to exchanges and sending back after buying from exchanges. I still don't think that's enough though to make everyone split up stakes.. the end of the day if it's say, those with over 5 it's only going to be around 20 people or something.. the effect of consolidation will very rapidly ware off.
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tbh i dont think it should be limited.. the reason being.. everyone knows some have many stakes.. it will always be there to see in the nxt blockchain history. i just think setting a limit is only going to cause trolls to say that nem core devs are trying to cover the fact that some people claimed many stakes.. its better to just leave this out in the open and let it be what it is..
im curious if there is any other reason to split up accounts other than to make the genesis distribution look better? i cant really think of one unless it makes it easier for you guys to do distribution?
if you put it into context.. when the genisis happens your going to see upwards of 2000 stakes going one stake to one nem address and a handfull of larger accounts but by no means even close to the size of the accounts that got coins from nxt genesis.. nor is there even close to as many larger holders..
im sure you may remember some of my previous arguments against a limit on trello so il not go into any more depth.
:)
disclaimer: i would have to split my nem stakes but i dont have a problem with doing that. my argument is purely based on arguments above.
I could not have said it any better myself kodtycoon. I can hear the trolls now. Splitting the stakes would make it look like a coverup. It may seem to other people as if we are endorsing the laundering of NEM stakes. :P
It doesn't matter if they are combined or not. Socks can easily be traced eventually. On the other hand, the question of generating high traffic and transaction charges is a fair argument. However, it is not fair for those who bought from the AE. Instead socks are the one who should be penalised.
But this would be a logistics nightmare if we try to do that. Like kodtycoon said there are only a handful out there. So it doesnt matter. So, yes forget about limiting each claim.
I think it makes no sense to bother people with spliting over accounts.
I think it makes no sense to bother people with spliting over accounts.
doesn't poi pretty much demand this anyway?
frankly i think the restriction should remain to what it is, i know people will work around it, but this in a way would strengthen the network if what we know of poi is anything to go by, more accounts, more distribution, etc. even if it turns out a minority are the same persons with different accounts. it still betters poi if my understanding of it is correct. and at least if they do try to consolidate their wealth, they'll be nabbed on fee's so they'll be at least giving back to the blockchain for their greed.
its also the principle; we want to discourage hording, and we also dont want to appear fickle by changing restrictions mid way through crucial times. these conditions were written and agreed to on nems announcement, if anyone uses it as an allegation of a coverup, they're simple desperate trolls trying to spread FUD.
last thing id want to see is some big nemstake whale making a public announcement that he decided to buy up loads of nemstake just because main devs suddenly permitted it, in an obvious attempt to tarnish this coins unique distribution model (i know you're just toying with the idea, but i'm just saying).
its also this very restriction thats keeping any nxt whales at bay(and id wager there's alot of them considering nxt's ipo and algorithm). i personally think nemstake will see alot of buying come the last few weeks to distribution, and id bet the only thing keeping the nxt whales from snapping it all up to dump it is the stake restrictions per account.
tl;dr no. keep it to what it is.
Hello
I'm against to change the rules now whatever they are.
Even if some of you think there is no logic in limiting 2 stakes per account
I would leave this rule in place to not go into another shitstorm of unhappy users and trolls.
I think actually there is some logic behind this limit of 2 stakes per account and this is that this could limit the Importance of this whales accounts in the network so that they can't use just 1 account for harvesting by just keeping the big amount of NEM in the account.
The rule is in place it was a announced long time ago and everybody is aware of it.
Hello
I'm against to change the rules now whatever they are.
Even if some of you think there is no logic in limiting 2 stakes per account
I would leave this rule in place to not go into another shitstorm of unhappy users and trolls.
I think actually there is some logic behind this limit of 2 stakes per account and this is that this could limit the Importance of this whales accounts in the network so that they can't use just 1 account for harvesting by just keeping the big amount of NEM in the account.
The rule is in place it was a announced long time ago and everybody is aware of it.
it wont affect importance score because the whales will just move all their nem to one account after distribution.. it wont have any effect in that regard. stopping the rule will not bring in trolls that will say "oh you changed the rules" but if we dont change it, we will most certainly get trolls saying that we are trying to hide the large stake holders and that we are ashamed of them... making accounts split their nem is only going to draw unwanted negative attention.
we dropped the auction which was in the plan from the very start and we didnt get any trolls from that? imagine what would have happened if we said no we cant change the rules and went ahead with it.. their may not have been nearly enough demand, price would have plummeted and trolls would take over saying nem is dead.. so a change in the rules can be a good thing sometimes.. and this is one of those times imo.
many things have changed along the way with nem, and dropping this rule would only be a minor change to eliminate possible trolling attempts. dropping it is by far the best way and i have stood by that argument all along.. getting nem stake on the AE was never part of the plan.. it gave opportunity for whales to accumulate yes which went against the fair distribution thing entirely but how much good has it also done and how many trolls have we got as a result of that drastic change in plans?
if people are not trolling now about the large holders, most likely they will not after distribution.. and never will.. however trying to hide it, which is being the opposite of transparent, will bring in an almighty shit storm at a time when things need to go as smooth as possible.. they will ask what else we are hiding.. and god knows what else.. image means everything in crypto and FORCING people to split up their accounts for the sake of aesthetics of the genesis distribution is not going to benefit our image what so ever.. it will damage it.. the distribution on the AE is what it is and currently no one beyond the few that want to split up the accounts are the only people i know of that have issue with the way things are..
if its not broke, dont try and fix it.. by forcing people to split up accounts we are OFFICIALLY saying that we think there is a problem with distribution.. now is that is not a message we want to send. im sure we are all confident of how good distribution is so we should put forward a move of confidence and drop the rule. sometimes a pre-emptive move with confidence can be a better offence again trolls than trying to use smoke and mirrors to try and hide it. by dropping it we are saying we are not afraid.. we are not going to blur the truth because we are transparent.. we will destroy every opportunity for trolling before it becomes and opportunity.. we are all confident and we will show our confidence.
I think it makes no sense to bother people with spliting over accounts.
doesn't poi pretty much demand this anyway?
frankly i think the restriction should remain to what it is, i know people will work around it, but this in a way would strengthen the network if what we know of poi is anything to go by, more accounts, more distribution, etc. even if it turns out a minority are the same persons with different accounts. it still betters poi if my understanding of it is correct. and at least if they do try to consolidate their wealth, they'll be nabbed on fee's so they'll be at least giving back to the blockchain for their greed.
its also the principle; we want to discourage hording, and we also dont want to appear fickle by changing restrictions mid way through crucial times. these conditions were written and agreed to on nems announcement, if anyone uses it as an allegation of a coverup, they're simple desperate trolls trying to spread FUD.
last thing id want to see is some big nemstake whale making a public announcement that he decided to buy up loads of nemstake just because main devs suddenly permitted it, in an obvious attempt to tarnish this coins unique distribution model (i know you're just toying with the idea, but i'm just saying).
its also this very restriction thats keeping any nxt whales at bay(and id wager there's alot of them considering nxt's ipo and algorithm). i personally think nemstake will see alot of buying come the last few weeks to distribution, and id bet the only thing keeping the nxt whales from snapping it all up to dump it is the stake restrictions per account.
tl;dr no. keep it to what it is.
^this^
Looks like biggest stakeholder has about 32 stakes.
This is less than 1% of total NEMs, less than any initial NXT user had and less than any core developer will have if I don't get it wrong.
He/she is not getting 1% of PoI in any case.
I really see no problem in it.
Whoever he/she is invested lots of money in NEM showing big faith in this movement.
It really makes no sense going against him/her.
Looks like biggest stakeholder has about 32 stakes.
This is less than 1% of total NEMs, less than any initial NXT user had and less than any core developer will have if I don't get it wrong.
He/she is not getting 1% of PoI in any case.
I really see no problem in it.
Whoever he/she is invested lots of money in NEM showing big faith in this movement.
It really makes no sense going against him/her.
He is one whale from Nxt though. ;)
owning 32 stakes from 4000 is not much of a whale and as said above, the guy has an obvious interest in NEM. People have bought on AE fair and square…whats the problem?
I also think, at this point, there is no serious argument for spliting stakes.
I really hope than "unlimited" will win. Since there was never a rule that a PERSON isnt allowed to have more than 2 stakes (it was only about ACCOUNTS), this rule only raises the workload for everyone. For the stakeholder to split them on different nxt accounts and for NEM devs to change the stakes at launch in NEM…
I really hope than "unlimited" will win. Since there was never a rule that a PERSON isnt allowed to have more than 2 stakes (it was only about ACCOUNTS), this rule only raises the workload for everyone. For the stakeholder to split them on different nxt accounts and for NEM devs to change the stakes at launch in NEM...
I agree. I actually voted for a maximum of two but I've changed my mind and I think unlimited is the best option at this point (unfortunately I can't change my vote). With the price of a NEMstake where it is now, someone would have to put up a lot of cash to accumulate any significant amount of NEM, and even then they would own a relatively small portion of the total money supply compared to nearly every other cryptocurrency out there now since we have such a nice distribution through our large number of original stakeholders.
I think there will really hardly be anyone holding more than two stakes anyway as it is right now, unless some major NXT whales come in and go on a buying spree before launch.
I really hope than "unlimited" will win. Since there was never a rule that a PERSON isnt allowed to have more than 2 stakes (it was only about ACCOUNTS), this rule only raises the workload for everyone. For the stakeholder to split them on different nxt accounts and for NEM devs to change the stakes at launch in NEM...
I think Jaguar actually meant per account not per person.
It wouldn't really increase the workload for devs.
I think there will really hardly be anyone holding more than two stakes anyway as it is right now, unless some major NXT whales come in and go on a buying spree before launch.
Actually there are some who hold (way) more then 2 NEMStake.