Proposed usage for unclaimed / socks

General Discussion
#121

what i dont understand is why dont you ask stakeholders fiirst and let them chose if they want a asset or xem? so everyone gets what he wants and is happy...

if your answer is that most would chose xem - so you have your answer. if most decide for silverasset is ok too. everybody gets what he wants....


Nothing is free.  The silver coins will be paid for by the real stakeholders through the devaluation of their stakes.  The best way to do it would be to distribute those sock XEM to all stakeholders raising the initial stake amount and allow them to buy a silver asset on the exchange voluntarily.  Like mix has already said, here or on telegram, it's not really a silver backed asset unless it can be exchanged on demand for said asset.   

You are asking fellow NEMsters to accept a lot, and to go along with it, with little to no real details. 

I think establishing a real world tradeable asset on the NEM exchange is an excellent idea and I fully support it.  The process is the only thing I am unsure or confident in. 

We are all very supportive and want NEM to be the best it can be, and also very protective of it. 

If someone would put forth a solid business plan around this and let everyone vett it, I think it would alleviate the fears and we can move on.
#122

So the intention never was to deliver the coins to all the stakeholders? Is the intention is to pay someone at or near a hundred thousand dollars to deliver something that never will be delivered, and then pay them to hold the coins that were never intended to be delivered?

If you want to buy silver, buy silver, not coins at ten times the price of silver. But before you do, ask ANON136 in the nxt forum how well that worked for him. No one wanted a "silver backed asset". No one.

What are you talking about?

Of course the silver coins will be delivered. But those who don't want it, can sell their silver coin assets so they don't have to get the silver coin, then sell it...
#123


what i dont understand is why dont you ask stakeholders fiirst and let them chose if they want a asset or xem? so everyone gets what he wants and is happy...

if your answer is that most would chose xem - so you have your answer. if most decide for silverasset is ok too. everybody gets what he wants....


Nothing is free.  The silver coins will be paid for by the real stakeholders through the devaluation of their stakes.  The best way to do it would be to distribute those sock XEM to all stakeholders raising the initial stake amount and allow them to buy a silver asset on the exchange voluntarily.  Like mix has already said, here or on telegram, it's not really a silver backed asset unless it can be exchanged on demand for said asset.   

You are asking fellow NEMsters to accept a lot, and to go along with it, with little to no real details. 

I think establishing a real world tradeable asset on the NEM exchange is an excellent idea and I fully support it.  The process is the only thing I am unsure or confident in. 

We are all very supportive and want NEM to be the best it can be, and also very protective of it. 

If someone would put forth a solid business plan around this and let everyone vett it, I think it would alleviate the fears and we can move on.


I'm not sure why you are against the coins only, but don't care about the other 90% of the unclaimed/sock stake use.

The mint requires 3500 coins to be ordered from the mint, paid for up front. We can only order by giving the coins to everyone, which was voted on by the community: https://forum.ournem.com/ideas/nem-silver-coin-for-all-stakeholders/

As long as the market cap is above a certain threshold, the coins will be bought and distributed. Otherwise the XEM will go into the unconventional marketing fund.

But we will make every effort to make the sale happen. We have said that the silver coins will be bought, so people who bought stakes for real money on the NXT Asset Exchange, paid a cost that included the expectation that they will get an ounce of silver as well.

There is also one very important point that I hope you can understand: no other crypto has tried to do anything like what we are doing with these silver coins. We want to realize Nick Szabo's property tiles idea and link the silver coins to the blockchain. To my knowledge, this will be the first practical implementation of his idea and will be a huge boost for NEM. We will all be much better off for this.
#124



So the intention never was to deliver the coins to all the stakeholders? Is the intention is to pay someone at or near a hundred thousand dollars to deliver something that never will be delivered, and then pay them to hold the coins that were never intended to be delivered?

If you want to buy silver, buy silver, not coins at ten times the price of silver. But before you do, ask ANON136 in the nxt forum how well that worked for him. No one wanted a "silver backed asset". No one.

What are you talking about?

Of course the silver coins will be delivered. But those who don't want it, can sell their silver coin assets so they don't have to get the silver coin, then sell it...


I see I am getting negative karma for asking questions? This is what the scammers in the NXT forum do.


This isn't the NXT forum. I just smited you for calling us scammers :)
Don't take it personally, that is just what karma is for.

If we are scammers, then where is the scam? The price is public and over 100 coins have been bought by people at the publicly advertised price. We are not just going to take the money and run, but will actually deliver the coins to the people.

On the NEM telegram chat, we have been working with the community to be as transparent as possible. If you sincerely think we might be scammers, why not come on the telegram chat and get involved and see for yourself? You can help us realize projects instead of calling people who are doing stuff scammers :)
#125

There are great people in nem. I see bloody rookie and gimre working hard every day. I saw the same in the beginning of nxt. Good people trying to help. Then the scumbag pieces of excrement scammers came. I don't want the same to happen here but it looks like it will happen


So far the NEM community is great. As long as people work together, they can prevent scammers from taking over. The key is to break out into the world of normal people and not just stay a small crypto circle jerk. The proposals for the sock and unclaimed stakes are the product of months of effort and I think will provide NEM with the firepower to launch into the mainstream.

There needs to no tolerance of scams or poor results. People need to be held accountable. One of the HUGE differences between NXT and NEM is that instead of having random anon guys run around with money, Rockethead, who is selling the coins, is a known person. We know his name and who he is. He is starting AltNemo as a legitimate company, not an illegal organization that does illegal IPOs. Also, the coin sale is going to be held by a legitimate company in Singapore, so there will be legal recourse if this was a scam. So there is just no comparison between working with known, legal entities and working with anon guys running 30 projects run by schoolkids ;)
#126

Oh BTW fsck you for the negative karma


Your karma is -5, which is not all from me.  :)
#127

It's also what was chosen by the stakeholders after months of discussion.

can you give me some details how many stakes voted for this and when and where? Or was this only a vote here in the forum where nobody can know who is behind the voter (maybe a stakeholder, maybe not) and if the number of voters was represantive in any way? is it representive if 20 people vote about something and the result is 13:7 if there are 4000 stakes?

Sorry, but you guys talking about "decission of the community" without any details...
#128

@alkaline: There is no way to make people vote. There was a public vote here on the forum and also links to this forum in the BTT thread I think. What else can you expect the devs to do? Write PMs to every single BTT stakeholder and send messasges to all the NXT stakeholders (which even costs money)? I don't think so. People who are interested in the progress of NEM, should at least check the BTT thread or the newsletters or this forum. One of these would have been enough to know about the vote.

@jadedjack: Come on. I think you are neither a 12 year old nor dumb. So please don't act like one. It is right, you didn't call somebody of us a scammer, but it was pretty close: "So the intention never was to deliver the coins to all the stakeholders?". This question implies a scam. The truth is: People can choose if they want a real silver coin or sell their silver coin asset (which cannot be worthless, because we are talking about real silver; of course nobody knows if the collector's value of these coins in- or decrease in the future, but the silver stays real) and get XEM for it instead. I don't see a problem.

#129

thats what i said. say whatever it was but not a decission of the community…

and you dont see a problem because your eyes are closed. otherwise you would ask each stakeholder if he wants xem or silverasset but you fear that no one choses silver… you could give them a "bonus asset" and this is tradeble in silverasset or xem.

this discussion feels like a flashback in the past where i tried to convince my grandfather to give me better money as a present instead that he bought this nice wooden pig for me… please give us money and dont decide for us to take the wooden pig (silver)…

#130

... but I
#131


... but I
#132

im really tryharding…

between: you say i got alot for what i payed already. i payed alot for my stakes and till now i didnt get alot. but i hope this will change soon…

#133

im really tryharding...

between: you say i got alot for what i payed already. i payed alot for my stakes and till now i didnt get alot. but i hope this will change soon...


I said you are getting a lot, not that you already got a lot.  ;)
#134

After grilling makoto quite intensively on telegram, I gained a lot more confidence in the silver coins plan, I was an avid opponent to silver coins but consider me converted. Of course I'm going to be cautious due to the sheer scale and cost of the project but if it can be pulled off its going to be pretty huge!

In relation to whether the community wants this or not, we can only go by those who voiced their opinion and voted, which resulted in a yes vote. Those who remained silent can be seen as indifferent as they would in a political vote. You can't assume that the non-voters are of an opinion one way or the other. You can only Mark them as indifferent ie. What ever the majority who do vote, vote for, is ok with the silent members.

As long as we proceed cautiously I think this is good to go.

Some of us plan to work on documentation that will outline as many details as possible so everything is as transparent as possible. So hopefully that will give more confidence to anyone who is unsure.

#135

thats what i said. say whatever it was but not a decission of the community...

and you dont see a problem because your eyes are closed. otherwise you would ask each stakeholder if he wants xem or silverasset but you fear that no one choses silver... you could give them a "bonus asset" and this is tradeble in silverasset or xem.

As I already said ("There is no way to make people vote. There was a public vote here on the forum and also links to this forum in the BTT thread I think. What else can you expect the devs to do?"), I don't think it is appropriate to invest so much time and money (for NXT messages) just to ask all the stakeholders to please vote on a decision that effects only 10 % of the unclaimed/sock stakes.

Pat said it very clear... Everybody who has at least minimal interest in NEM, should have noticed that vote.
#136

Well I would appreciate a serious answer :smiley:

#137

We have a group chat in telegram (see telegram.org). If you want to join, tell me your username, then I can add you.

#138

about  the unclaimed stakes , i have some question , for me i really rememberd i follow the instruction and submit my token here , when i found web's show "sucessed"  i think it's gonna be ok and left ,waiting for the time of released, but now i found i am not be in the list ,i confused ,i think maybe some of them ignore the next step just like me.

i suggest  : can all team members give us a chance again to submit our token ,thanks again

#139

about  the unclaimed stakes , i have some question , for me i really rememberd i follow the instruction and submit my token here , when i found web's show "sucessed"  i think it's gonna be ok and left ,waiting for the time of released, but now i found i am not be in the list ,i confused ,i think maybe some of them ignore the next step just like me.

i suggest  : can all team members give us a chance again to submit our token ,thanks again


That's exactly what the extended redemption is for.
#140

Answer is: Don't worry, you can redeem your full NEM stake after launch (for 2 months I think).