Spread some XEM!


@FireF
You got a point there.
To summarize for me:
With cosign 1..n we have a multisig fee of 6n, plus the risk of more than 1 out of n cosigners dropping out. Not to forget the long duration of cosigning the last transaction n times.
With cosign 1..t, with t being a number of trusted members, the risk would be t-1 of those defrauding all others of the security deposit.

With t>=3  I would definitely prefer your variant. For a "final" version possibly t=4 since t-1=3 people are much more trustworthy than t-1=2.

I have already added your multisig account to my wallet. So I would like to participate.


Guess t=4 would be a good solution.

Or we do t=5. With 3 out of a trusted group and 2 Start/End accounts. So the ones who start the loops will be sure to get money back at the end. And even trusted group is not able to get money out. Still risk is that trusted group member will drop out.

t=5 because if one trusted groupmember would be like abuse he have to simply get 2 Start/End accounts into the loop and he could throw out the other trusted member. (Call me paranoid :-) Anyway afterwards we reduce the probability of risk to a degree that it could be consider OK and if you don't like to accept the little risk which stays, you shouldn't spread at all.

That said a fix trusted group of 4 members would be more practical and less expensive. Cause you don't need to do a new multisig account for every Start.

Enough theory -> Lets start some practical Test now.

I'll send 200k to multisig account (tompa,sedimer, myself).
Message 4bd1b (This will be our tracking number)


If you trust in as just follow my instruction.


1)
mindwalker sends me 50k
be5en5tiel send me 50k
asey10 send me 50k
boniface send me 50k

All with message 4bd1b (Don't need you name cause I've you in addrbook)

2) Each of first step guys ask 2 other to send them 25k with message containing "4bd1b" out of this spreading thread or some where else. And post here from whom with what addr they got the money from.


I do a list then.
3) sedimer send 25k to 4 accounts  and tompa send 25k to 4 accounts.

We decide if Step 4 will End loop or we do some more.

4) sedimer and tompa will receive 100k out of multisig account. Or sedimer and tompa will get money from others here.


Please donate some xem to cover the multisig fees to multisig account NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV

privkey of multisig account is in this thread

Importan: Make sure that noone has anytime a plus balance in this loop

Oh, a tree stucture for the start? OK why not.

I confirmed firefighter's deposit of 200k in the multisig account.
So I could trust him to receive 50k from me by transaction 56994a9cf38774de78704040c2fbb803c453e91e159627c2aa7339ce25f60fcf

Now I need two guys to send me 25k with unencrypted message 4bd1b. Please post or PM here or in telegram (Mindwalker) first. Send the amount when called, so I don't receive more than 2 transactions. (If that happens anyway, I will send back)

I've sent my 50k to firefighter, but getting error 306 when trying to donate for the multisig fees.

Having to do it remotely from phone and manually type address out, but tried 3 times and all got the 306 error.

Firefighter I've sent you 500XEM for my fee donation. Can you forward that on to the multisig account for me please.

Now I also need two guys to send me 25k with message 4bd1b.

Spread NEM  :-*

Everybody should do like Mindwalker and post transaction hash id.

And surely look up if the destination address is that what who should really receive the tx.

I'll confirm that I've got boniface and Mindwalker on my Account now.

@boniface.

I will forward the 500 xem. Thanks for donating.



Received 25k by NB3T23-B5KQ5K-Z65TPL-LPYF2B-WWPWLQ-7SLGPK-6VWC (S NEMoto) via 5c02be5d61743c377092dde95499c9889c14d8e540a2def8dc941dabaa22a5e2

One more left.


Received 25k by NB3T23-B5KQ5K-Z65TPL-LPYF2B-WWPWLQ-7SLGPK-6VWC (S NEMoto) via 5c02be5d61743c377092dde95499c9889c14d8e540a2def8dc941dabaa22a5e2

One more left.


Hey you guys keep running the tree. Now were we minimized risk just go on.

@Be5en5tiel, @asey10 don' forget to send me or tell me if you don't like to send so I could ask others for.

We currently are at 3 cosignators neyt round we will go up to 4 cosignators.
I'll would trust boniface and Mindwalker to be the fours member.

Just vote here who is trusted

[ ] sedimer
[ ] tompa
[ ] firefighter (me)
[ ] boniface
[ ] mindwalker
[ ] Add other name here



hey guys, can i join the action or are all slots filled right now?


hey guys, can i join the action or are all slots filled right now?


Hey,

just send 50k to me NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 with Message "4bd1b".

Then you've have to ask 2 peoble to send you 25k each with Message "4bd1b".  They will receive xem Back later from tompa or sedimer.
200k xem are secured on NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV.



Hey,

just send 50k to me NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 with Message "4bd1b".

Then you've have to ask 2 peoble to send you 25k each with Message "4bd1b".  They will receive xem Back later from tompa or sedimer.
200k xem are secured on NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV.


is this already done? or can i do it?



is this already done? or can i do it?


Not done. Checked about 20 minuts ago.
But there are 2 open slots anyway.

Just come in.

If i get to much tx in i would simply put it immediatly to multisig account.



hey guys, can i join the action or are all slots filled right now?


Hey,

just send 50k to me NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 with Message "4bd1b".

Then you've have to ask 2 peoble to send you 25k each with Message "4bd1b".  They will receive xem Back later from tompa or sedimer.
200k xem are secured on NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV.


sent! (62d802bb538b9e650850764f894d1940f7e7a3588e51c8905e850038279855f0)

can 2 people send me 25k ?

NCUIS2-GD66P7-MDXNRJ-PUVFPU-NQYGLR-7YDRPL-3NOP

It would also be interesting if you guys post your importancescore and total NEM in your account.
This way you can compare it to eachother and to people not doing the "Spread XEM" thing  :wink:
Otherwise you can never be sure if it helps…

just sended 50k to NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 with message 4bd1b

thanks for returning  ;D

transaction: e434f94acd1713426e7b0185e4b3c635241b1e6e422c08460e30e72d34576340



Received 25k by NB3T23-B5KQ5K-Z65TPL-LPYF2B-WWPWLQ-7SLGPK-6VWC (S NEMoto) via 5c02be5d61743c377092dde95499c9889c14d8e540a2def8dc941dabaa22a5e2

One more left.


Hey you guys keep running the tree. Now were we minimized risk just go on.

@Be5en5tiel, @asey10 don' forget to send me or tell me if you don't like to send so I could ask others for.

We currently are at 3 cosignators neyt round we will go up to 4 cosignators.
I'll would trust boniface and Mindwalker to be the fours member.

Just vote here who is trusted

[ ] sedimer
[ ] tompa
[ ] firefighter (me)
[ ] boniface
[ ] mindwalker
[ ] Add other name here

+1

Looks like a pyramid scheme


Hi jadejack, as you can see in this thread it is not a pyramid scheme.
We just send here to each other and had to trust the other send back. Thats why we where thinking about a solution to minimize risk.
Mindwalker came up with a good idea and we are doing this. Before someone sends he needs to be sure that he trust sedimer, tompa and me.  Cause we have the multsig account we save the money so noone leaves with it.
And as as always said, it has to be checked that all who receive xem will be in negativ except the multisig account.

This is a test tree, we will later put at least 4 cosignators up. In this test the max xem what is out should not exceed 200k for all senders together. I started with 200k and received currently 150k I guess. The 3 people who send me 50k each should ask two others to send 25k each. So we will never exceed whole limite. A pyramide sheme would ask the second sender also for 50k.

But you should read this thread to get Your own opinion. And nobody should send money if he don't trust, don't understand this test, don't understand the rules and don't understand that there is still a risk to loose money. If he makes a failure for example and sends someone who is not negativ in chain to multisig or if tompa, sedimer, and I weren't trustworthy at the first place.


FireF

Hello,

Important Info

The post of jadejack shows me that this thread is quite long and it maybe hard to get transparent informend for newcomers in this thread. So there is maybe a risk that someone is pretending he's in test and he isn't.

So for everybody to get current infos,


At the moment following Accounts paid me.

Mindwalker -> NBBYPT-NH3DVI-IGNT4U-FF656D-G22JEM-AWORTY-CZU6 = 50k
boniface -> NDSB42-CNFKB7-PN4F7S-XQP6YH-7V7RDR-H4KQYJ-JBGN = 50k
elfixit -> NASQJI-LDD4YX-SXBQDC-XQZCPN-K55SYD-33OBYQ-OPTF = 50k
bitdraw -> NCUIS2-GD66P7-MDXNRJ-PUVFPU-NQYGLR-7YDRPL-3NOP  = 50k


You can checked this by looking at my account NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 and see TX with message containing 4bd1b. You will see a outgoing tx to multisig NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV too.

So if you like to spreading in this Test send 25k to one of the above listed accounts. PM's them that you will send. Then may double check they don't have more the 2 incoming tx with Message 4bd1b. Then send tx. Then post here that you've send.

Important Rule
The Multisig Account will just cover loose out of the first 2 TX that with Message 4bd1b to the accounts mentioned  above.

Be aware that you still responsible for your self. The multisig Spreading Account is just a way to minimize risk. But procedure is still in test and not bulletproof.


If a account in list above, want to get  out of this Test, they have to post it here and wait min 12 hours after post before initiating payback.

Update
This list is not complete it is just a small service from me to you.

Timestamp:2015-04-10 21:47:02
Mindwalker incoming "4bd1b" 25k TX  5c02be5d61743c377092dde95499c9889c14d8e540a2def8dc941dabaa22a5e2




Hello,

Important Info

The post of jadejack shows me that this thread is quite long and it maybe hard to get transparent informend for newcomers in this thread. So there is maybe a risk that someone is pretending he's in test and he isn't.

So for everybody to get current infos,


At the moment following Accounts paid me.

Mindwalker -> NBBYPT-NH3DVI-IGNT4U-FF656D-G22JEM-AWORTY-CZU6 = 50k
boniface -> NDSB42-CNFKB7-PN4F7S-XQP6YH-7V7RDR-H4KQYJ-JBGN = 50k
elfixit -> NASQJI-LDD4YX-SXBQDC-XQZCPN-K55SYD-33OBYQ-OPTF = 50k
bitdraw -> NCUIS2-GD66P7-MDXNRJ-PUVFPU-NQYGLR-7YDRPL-3NOP  = 50k


You can checked this by looking at my account NBYOKP-4LSLQX-RJ7H3P-QXGFTT-TB66HM-MDUU5D-4TO7 and see TX with message containing 4bd1b. You will see a outgoing tx to multisig NB6OBU-Z2TZV5-HM3NGF-QX3I3M-QUDMMZ-NFTITU-ANKV too.

So if you like to spreading in this Test send 25k to one of the above listed accounts. PM's them that you will send. Then may double check they don't have more the 2 incoming tx with Message 4bd1b. Then send tx. Then post here that you've send.

Important Rule
The Multisig Account will just cover loose out of the first 2 TX that with Message 4bd1b to the accounts mentioned  above.

Be aware that you still responsible for your self. The multisig Spreading Account is just a way to minimize risk. But procedure is still in test and not bulletproof.


If a account in list above, want to get  out of this Test, they have to post it here and wait min 12 hours after post before initiating payback.

Update
This list is not complete it is just a small service from me to you.

Timestamp:2015-04-10 21:47:02
Mindwalker incoming "4bd1b" 25k TX  5c02be5d61743c377092dde95499c9889c14d8e540a2def8dc941dabaa22a5e2






hi firefighter

sorry for delay

i send you 50k

hash: 6164aba16befe4b570085ffd624c3a7988ec8f990d01a27b405656989d3eca94
timestamp: Apr 11, 2015 23:22:50
message: 4bd1b asey10

@asey10
I'm afraid that was a bit of a mistake now. Since firefighter has already a zero balance, he will run away with your money now.

Of course he won't. There are several possibilities to solve this issue. He could just send the amount back to you. Afterwards you could pay 25k to 2 of the 4 second level people instead.
He could also go ahead and refund 2 of the third level guys (we have just one by now) each with 25k, meaning you would finally be repaid by the Multisig Account. That would avoid the back and forth transaction between you and him.
I think he will make a reasonable decision - or just run away as a rich man :wink: