The controversy here is the number "4" sounds like "death" in East Asian languages and many do take this superstition seriously.
We had a prior poll and discussion on this. I have condensed this poll down to two choices for more accurate results.
Like the idea of being a Double millionaire.
Dont like the idea of Asians subconciously thinking of Nem in context of Death
so its 8 billion lads…hopefully…
( lads is inclusive of gals of course…)
One more time I'd like to point out that the PS4 is selling very well in asia. So maybe just maybe you guys are making a little to much fuzz around this whole thing.
why is 3.99 billion is the answer:
Reason 1:
because 3.99 billion =21 million190.
and 21 million is bitcoin quantity, while 190 is a good number in China, it means live long, bitcoin190 will means we can live longer than bitcoin.
and 9 means forever in China culture.
Reason 2:
Also everyone still know NXT's original 21 btc investment story, why BCNXT stoped the fundraising just at 21 btc,not 22 or 23, He wants to show NXT will be next generation after Bitcoin. if we chose 3,990,000,000(= 21 million*190) ,which also can means NEM is NEW generation(3rd generation) after Bitcoin.
And in current important time , we just multiply to 8 billion will be considered not serious about our NEM.
that's all my thought about the number.
...
and 21 million is bitcoin quantity,...
And in current important time , we just multiply to 8 billion will be considered not serious about our NEM.
that's all my thought about the number.
"bitcoin quantity" ? I have never heard such thing. What does it mean, from where it comes?
What do you mean by "not serious" ?
Merit of 8 billion NEM.(from a discussion until now)
1) Lucky number.---->popularity --------> large market
2) Soon, world population become 8 billion. ----> 1 NEM per 1 person!
3) 2 million NEM per 1 stakehloder (Double NEMillionaire) -------> Half sell, still NEMillionaire ----------> Wide distribution of NEM----------> NEM's popularity & prosperity.
Somebody please show me the merit of 4 billion NEM shortly.
If he shows the more merit, I will throw away 8 billion and support 4 Billion.
Thanks in advance.
One more time I'd like to point out that the PS4 is selling very well in asia. So maybe just maybe you guys are making a little to much fuzz around this whole thing.
Like I said before, it is true that the superstition is not THAT big of a deal, but often this superstition is more prominent when dealing with something like money. However, I actually voted to just keep the amount the same at 4 billion in the previous poll because I do not think it is that big of an issue, at least here in Japan. It could be more of an issue in China, but I'm really not sure it will make that much of a difference.
...
and 21 million is bitcoin quantity,...
And in current important time , we just multiply to 8 billion will be considered not serious about our NEM.
that's all my thought about the number.
"bitcoin quantity" ? I have never heard such thing. What does it mean, from where it comes?
What do you mean by "not serious" ?
21 million is the bitcoin quanity can be dug out, all the supply limitation will be 21 million at the end of the year 2140.
what i means "not serious" is that if now we decide double the number to 8 billion, it is far away from our original 4 billion planed nearly 1year ago. why double happen before beta release, what we need to do is still stick to original plan ,but just need small adjustment for the number 4 billion.
The reason want to change the number is just to avoid 4 to avoid asian people unhappy at the number ,but why chose double them. and 3.99 billion will not be regarded as 4 Billion in China.
I guess people never bought iPhone 4 in chine because of that? or Nexus 4 or whatever. what is going on here ???
Merit of 8 billion NEM.(from a discussion until now)
1) Lucky number.---->popularity --------> large market
2) Soon, world population become 8 billion. ----> 1 NEM per 1 person!
3) 2 million NEM per 1 stakehloder (Double NEMillionaire) -------> Half sell, still NEMillionaire ----------> Wide distribution of NEM----------> NEM's popularity & prosperity.
All of these points are emotional reasons. But still they are valid points since economy has to do a lot with emotions.
And I overthought this point from patmast3r:
Changin the amouint is one thing. Doubling the amount especially this close to launch is imho nothing but - sorry to be so blunt - idiotic.
It's also not like the first thing people will hear about it is that there are 4 billion. It won't show up anywhere. Burn a single NEM after launch and it won't even show up on cmc.
People have put a price on NEMStake with a total of 4 billion in mind. If we double that now some will know and will immediatly lower their price. Others won't know and will think that it's just NEM sucking. It will do nothing but raise havoc.
I'm all for giving the community a voice but some decision shouldn't be up for vote.
So everyone was against a very minor and slow inflation but doulbing the supply willy nilly is cool ?
Why do you think A NEM stake is worth more or less with a different total amount of coins? Its still the same piece of the cake.
Merit of 8 billion NEM.(from a discussion until now)
1) Lucky number.---->popularity --------> large market
2) Soon, world population become 8 billion. ----> 1 NEM per 1 person!
3) 2 million NEM per 1 stakehloder (Double NEMillionaire) -------> Half sell, still NEMillionaire ----------> Wide distribution of NEM----------> NEM's popularity & prosperity.
All of these points are emotional reasons. But still they are valid points since economy has to do a lot with emotions.
And I overthought this point from patmast3r:
Changin the amouint is one thing. Doubling the amount especially this close to launch is imho nothing but - sorry to be so blunt - idiotic.
It's also not like the first thing people will hear about it is that there are 4 billion. It won't show up anywhere. Burn a single NEM after launch and it won't even show up on cmc.
People have put a price on NEMStake with a total of 4 billion in mind. If we double that now some will know and will immediatly lower their price. Others won't know and will think that it's just NEM sucking. It will do nothing but raise havoc.
I'm all for giving the community a voice but some decision shouldn't be up for vote.
So everyone was against a very minor and slow inflation but doulbing the supply willy nilly is cool ?
Why do you think A NEM stake is worth more or less with a different total amount of coins? Its still the same piece of the cake.
It's the same piece but from a different cake imho.
Changing anything that drastic especially this late without a really good reason (no superstition is not good enough for me, don't mean to offen anyone) will make us look like we're all over the place.
But I'm going to stay out of this discussion from now on. Appearantly I'm missing something because even core devs don't seem to be against it.
Merit of 8 billion NEM.(from a discussion until now)
1) Lucky number.---->popularity --------> large market
2) Soon, world population become 8 billion. ----> 1 NEM per 1 person!
3) 2 million NEM per 1 stakehloder (Double NEMillionaire) -------> Half sell, still NEMillionaire ----------> Wide distribution of NEM----------> NEM's popularity & prosperity.
All of these points are emotional reasons. But still they are valid points since economy has to do a lot with emotions.
And I overthought this point from patmast3r:
Changin the amouint is one thing. Doubling the amount especially this close to launch is imho nothing but - sorry to be so blunt - idiotic.
It's also not like the first thing people will hear about it is that there are 4 billion. It won't show up anywhere. Burn a single NEM after launch and it won't even show up on cmc.
People have put a price on NEMStake with a total of 4 billion in mind. If we double that now some will know and will immediatly lower their price. Others won't know and will think that it's just NEM sucking. It will do nothing but raise havoc.
I'm all for giving the community a voice but some decision shouldn't be up for vote.
So everyone was against a very minor and slow inflation but doulbing the supply willy nilly is cool ?
Why do you think A NEM stake is worth more or less with a different total amount of coins? Its still the same piece of the cake.
It's the same piece but from a different cake imho.
Changing anything that drastic especially this late without a really good reason (no superstition is not good enough for me, don't mean to offen anyone) will make us look like we're all over the place.
But I'm going to stay out of this discussion from now on. Appearantly I'm missing something because even core devs don't seem to be against it.
I would really like you in this discussion because I think you have a lot of good ideas (from what I read in the forum).
Do you really think emotional reasons are not worth being considered? Especially point 3) is good thinking in my opinion. Even if you are a pragmatic guy who doesnt give a crap about the feeling of beeing a millionaire (I for example think like that!) there will probably really be people who give away more NEM away if they start from 2 million instead of 1 million. And that is indeed an important point, don't you think?
I see one big point in favor of keeping the rule as it is. Rules are rules and not supposed to be changed except in extraordinary circumstances this cannot be taken lightly unless we want to see the "credibility" of rules being destroyed. Kudos to Patmast3r for seeing this.
You call it "rule" others call it a random decision.
Since the possible positive consequences are already explained, the main question is now: What possible negative consequences could we expect if we change the total amount to 8 billion?
We should answer this question as concretely as possible. Patmast3r for example expects people to lower the price for the stakes, which I don't see a reason for. But maybe I'm just missing something.
Why risk having a number that Asians consider unlucky or deadly? They are quite superstitious ,at least in my experience . If something negative were to happen however small they might be more likely to stay away. Isnt it a good thing that we are taking Asian beliefs , superstition and psychology into account ? Its respectful.
Now as long as we have plenty coins to cover a fantastic future does it really matter how many there are?
I will say again that Nemstakes are not a true representation of value as at the moment they fall under certain parameters and that price is not something to worry about.
If anything the change to coin amount would bring increased news coverage and interest.
I definitely vote for no significant change. If you really want to be sensible, then by all means, take 3,990,000,000. Beyond that the discussion drifts into something else. Let's keep it small and solve it small. End of discussion.
You call it "rule" others call it a random decision.
Since the possible positive consequences are already explained, the main question is now: What possible negative consequences could we expect if we change the total amount to 8 billion?
We should answer this question as concretely as possible. Patmast3r for example expects people to lower the price for the stakes, which I don't see a reason for. But maybe I'm just missing something.
U.S constitutions (or any constitutions and rules) are in large part products of "random" decisions at a particular point in time. Some rules are really outdated and do change over times, but decision to change a rule cannot be taken lightly.
I see the risk that people seeing NEM people/ developers "making up the rules on the fly" too easy. "What's next ?" they will ask. Next year they will add 2% inflation every year because that is how the population grows annually ? and what is next after that?
Everyone wants to entrust a steady, principled man/ women not a fickle person who changes her hair/ his opinion every other day. You know what I mean ? i originally like 8 billion and I still do so I am just saying that the change should not be taken lightly. It should probably require at least a more formal way to consensus gathering: written statements from developers, stakeholders for example.
You call it "rule" others call it a random decision.
Since the possible positive consequences are already explained, the main question is now: What possible negative consequences could we expect if we change the total amount to 8 billion?
We should answer this question as concretely as possible. Patmast3r for example expects people to lower the price for the stakes, which I don't see a reason for. But maybe I'm just missing something.
U.S constitutions (or any constitutions and rules) are in large part products of "random" decisions at a particular point in time. Some rules are really outdated and do change over times, but decision to change a rule cannot be taken lightly.
I see the risk that people seeing NEM people/ developers "making up the rules on the fly" too easy. "What's next ?" they will ask. Next year they will add 2% inflation every year because that is how the population grows annually ? and what is next after that?
Everyone wants to entrust a steady, principled man/ women not a fickle person who changes her hair/ his opinion every other day. You know what I mean ? i originally like 8 billion and I still do so I am just saying that the change should not be taken lightly. It should probably require at least a more formal way to consensus gathering: written statements from developers, stakeholders for example.
Constitutions are usually not in large parts random but rather well thought out decisions! I hope so at least :D
Anyway... Of course this should not be taken lightly. I never meant that. This should just be an objective discussion and after that the devs should decide what to do.
@xtester: What do you mean with "Beyond that the discussion drifts into something else."? I think an objective discussion is a good thing and IF the total amount will be changed to e.g. 8 billion there will be good reaons which people will understand instead of thinking that "the NEM people" change their opinion every day. In my opinion its looking better if a rule is well thought out compared to a more or less randomly chosen amount.
The origin behind the 4, as Eadeqa pointed out, was based on LTC being 4x of BTC and therefore NEM was made 4x of NXT. It does look silly now as LTC isn't even the #2 coin anymore. NXT isn't the number 3 coin anymore either.
The 4 does have history to it but the discussion of numbers didn't really come up until the discussion of unclaimed stakes. I don't think anyone sees this as a random arbitrary change.
There is some minor dissent over appealing to superstition (esp from the Europeans) but the Asian nemsters are taking it seriously and are in favor of change (whether burning a small amount or doubling).
I think rockethead makes a good argument that the NEM marketcap will be higher with 8 billion coins: https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
I wonder, should we consider 100 billion?