So increasing the number of NEM and giving it to current stake holders will make NEM more successful? To me it looks like that those who have will have more and those that don't won't. People keep talking about NEM being used as a currency but they fail to understand economics 101, supply and demand play a big part in it. Getting NEM into the hands of everyday people as easly and cheaply as possible will make NEM grow, not lining the pockets of stakeholders.
Doubling the number of coins is risky IMHO. It's like doubling the amount of cash in circulation.
I think rockethead makes a good argument that the NEM marketcap will be higher with 8 billion coins: https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
I wonder, should we consider 100 billion?
He made some very good points. I think 100 billion is excessively high. Though I would support raising the coin amount. There is a certain psychological stigma on BTT that high amount of coins means that the coin is junk. I think this was caused when Doge got real popular and all the clones of the time created ridiculously high coin amounts thinking that they would be the next Doge. We don't want to be associated with that.
I think rockethead makes a good argument that the NEM marketcap will be higher with 8 billion coins: https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
I wonder, should we consider 100 billion?
He is right. The market cap will increase because emotionally people are not going to consider the exact supply. Rational actors will consider supply; crypto has many irrational actors.
So I had the thought today to increase it to 100 billion too. Yes, this sounds absurd, why not 1 trillion then?
For me, I want to see NEM take over the world and be more powerful than fiat and bitcoin combined. To that end, I need to think about how many NEM we would need to supply the full financial needs of the world. Yes, I am serious.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm
From this article, I figured out just as a rough guesstimate that we need 50,000 units per person. Of course rich people will have more and poor people less, but as an average that is a nice even number. Since there are about 8 trillion people on Earth, that would make the total units needed to be..... 400,000,000,000,000,000. The total number of NEM is 4,000,000,000 but if we break it down to the smallest unit it would be 4,000,000,000.00000000. I think it is important to remove the last two digits because they would be need to show divisions of a smallest unit so really 4,000,000,000.000000. This number rewritten is 4,000,000,000,000,000,000.
4,000,000,000,000,000,000 = total number of smallest NEM units.
400,000,000,000,000,000 = units needed for NEM to take over all money.
To sum all this up, what I am trying to say is that the bare minimun need for a currency divisible by 8 to take over the world is actually just 400 million. Right now NEM is set to release with 4 billion which is 10 times larger than the necessary amount. So, basically from my calculations any number over 400 million would be okay. The original 4 billion number proposed by UP, would in fact give us lots of wiggle room for the economy to grow (which it should of course).
So from my non-economic background 4 billion is enough, but I would still say 3.99 billion. But of course 8 billion or 10 billion is okay with me too.
Actually..... I don't know. Anything is okay :P
For me, I want to see NEM take over the world and be more powerful than fiat and bitcoin combined. To that end, I need to think about how many NEM we would need to supply the full financial needs of the world. Yes, I am serious.
In that case inflation would imho be the best solution. A very small inflation could raise the supply slowly which will accomodate for adoption. There will be more NEM for more people over the years.
We could set a sensible maximum number of NEMs that will ever exist and that would be that.
@jabo38s: There are about 8 billion (or 7.3 billion) people on Earth, not trillion. But your calculation is a good start anyway.
-> 4 billion is enough NEM to supply the whole world theoretically. So thats no reason to double it to 8 billion.
@patmast3r: Are you serious or are you now provoking? Serious question… Because implementing an inflation is a way bigger thing than changing the total amount before launch. Implementing an inflation is something that changes how people see a coin dramatically.
I'm also against a total amount of 100 billion NEM because that change is too big. Going from 4 to 8 billion would have some (emotional but still real) reasons. Going to 100 billion just because of market cap… People wouldn't understand I think.
I like 8B, ~1 represents each habitant in earth.
I like 8B, ~1 represents each habitant in earth.
I was the one that came up with the 8b, 1 for each person idea. But now I am thinking about it some more.
When Satoshi made Bitcoin he deliberately made a messed up mining system. He knew the system kind of sucked, but he did it on purpose. He wanted the distribution of Bitcoin to mirror gold and in doing so because of its scarcity that hopefully bitcoins would be come valuable, and then fulfill their potential as a token of value. The gold distribution schema was a big gamble to kickstart blockchain technology, but it worked and here we are.
We no longer need PoW to prove that the blockchain can change the world, so we can design a system better than is much better than PoW, thus we have PoI.
But when people asked Satoshi, why 21 million and why distributed like that, he could answer simply, "I wanted bitcoin to mimic the gold supply". People went "ahhhhhh" not really realizing that a blockchain wasn't gold and need not mimic it. He basically pulled a fast one on everybody.
But when people ask us, why did you chose 4 billion, or 8 billion, or 3.8 billion, how did you come up with that number? We really.... really.... really..... need a better answer than it was 4 times bigger than NXT's 1 billion and we wanted to be silver to their gold. Yes, I do remember UP saying that now.
So, whatever the number, we need to get our reason behind it straight. Satoshi had it right in that at least he had a good reason for picking his number of Bitcoins. We need a really good reason for picking our number of NEM's.
I like my reason above where I tried to figure out how many NEMs would be needed to meet the needs of every person on Earth. 8 billion people times 50,000 block chain units to the 8th decimal point = 400,000,000 NEM but we added a factor of 10 to be safe to 4,000,000,000. And then we burnt 1 to be lucky. Hahaha.
Basically, somebody needs to figure out a real reason why the number of NEM = XXXXXX because if we dont, people won't take us seriously. I like the 1 NEM for each person on Earth idea, but really we need somebody with a numbers back ground to figure this out. Not just me googling "how much money there is in the world" and multiplying that by 8 billion.
basically what I am saying is it is lame to change the number of NEM so late in the game.
but it is even more lame in 5 years to explain to somebody that the reason we have 4 billion NEM is that NEM wanted to be silver to NXT's gold.
so we need to come up with a real reason for why the number of NEM is XXXXXX. if it stays 4 bill, okay, but if not, then we need to change it.
that way in many years from now when people ask, we can answer with something that sounds respectable.
Just change to 8 billion coins and hard fork the beta.
NEM as a new economy symbol, should be regulated and appears to be formal and serious.
Why don't we ignore the fucking Chinese tradition which even myself, a Chinese don't care a damn, and stick to the origin 4 plan?
NEM as a new economy symbol, should be regulated and appears to be formal and serious.
Why don't we ignore the f**king Chinese tradition which even myself, a Chinese don't care a damn, and stick to the origin 4 plan?
What is your rationale against changing other than the number 4? Look at the grander scheme of things. Don't just look at the leaf in front of you. There is a forest out there. Don't believe is one thing. Not giving a damn is another. Respect is another.
NEM as a new economy symbol, should be regulated and appears to be formal and serious.
Why don't we ignore the f**king Chinese tradition which even myself, a Chinese don't care a damn, and stick to the origin 4 plan?
What is your rationale against changing other than the number 4? Look at the grander scheme of things. Don't just look at the leaf in front of you. There is a forest out there. Don't believe is one thing. Not giving a damn is another. Respect is another.
Let's take it seriously.
People value the price of something most due to their previous experience.
They would compare this one to that one and any anchor they've got in the past.
Why is bitcoin so valuable? By setting its amount exactly same as the gold, the founder smartly set an anchor for all the people buy it. They would link bit coin to gold subconsciously, that's how it work and why it's so valuable.
:) ;D
If we really want to increase the total value of NEM, we shall first find an anchor for people to judge the value of NEM.
My suggestion is that we should set the amount of NEM to something of real value in the real world.
Gold is a good choose, yet it has been used by the very first coin bitcoin.
Diamond sounds more precious, the known diamond reserves is 2.5billion CT.
If we set the total supply to 2.5 billion, we may indicates that NEM should be as valuable as diamond.
As a conclusion, we may end up by getting a total supply of 2.5 billion.
Let's take it seriously.
People value the price of something most due to their previous experience.
They would compare this one to that one and any anchor they've got in the past.
Why is bitcoin so valuable? By setting its amount exactly same as the gold, the founder smartly set an anchor for all the people buy it. They would link bit coin to gold subconsciously, that's how it work and why it's so valuable.
:) ;D
If we really want to increase the total value of NEM, we shall first find an anchor for people to judge the value of NEM.
My suggestion is that we should set the amount of NEM to something of real value in the real world.
Gold is a good choose, yet it has been used by the very first coin bitcoin.
Diamond sounds more precious, the known diamond reserves is 2.5billion CT.
If we set the total supply to 2.5 billion, we may indicates that NEM should be as valuable as diamond.
As a conclusion, we may end up by getting a total supply of 2.5 billion.
I don't think bitcoin has its value because of gold. (And it doesn't have the value of gold...)
And I don't think we should set the total amout of NEM to something similar beause any values and any gold, silver or diamond amounts aren't fixed.
Let's take it seriously.
People value the price of something most due to their previous experience.
They would compare this one to that one and any anchor they've got in the past.
Why is bitcoin so valuable? By setting its amount exactly same as the gold, the founder smartly set an anchor for all the people buy it. They would link bit coin to gold subconsciously, that's how it work and why it's so valuable.
:) ;D
If we really want to increase the total value of NEM, we shall first find an anchor for people to judge the value of NEM.
My suggestion is that we should set the amount of NEM to something of real value in the real world.
Gold is a good choose, yet it has been used by the very first coin bitcoin.
Diamond sounds more precious, the known diamond reserves is 2.5billion CT.
If we set the total supply to 2.5 billion, we may indicates that NEM should be as valuable as diamond.
As a conclusion, we may end up by getting a total supply of 2.5 billion.
I don't think bitcoin has its value because of gold. (And it doesn't have the value of gold...)
And I don't think we should set the total amout of NEM to something similar beause any values and any gold, silver or diamond amounts aren't fixed.
I suggest you all should read this post too and challenge it till it is made more right (It is never wrong either as we are all guessing). https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
I suggest you all should read this post too and challenge it till it is made more right (It is never wrong either as we are all guessing). https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
Yup, I've read it and it does make sense!
Basically, somebody needs to figure out a real reason why the number of NEM = XXXXXX because if we dont, people won't take us seriously. I like the 1 NEM for each person on Earth idea, but really we need somebody with a numbers back ground to figure this out. Not just me googling "how much money there is in the world" and multiplying that by 8 billion.
I really liked your idea about the 8 billion. But take a look at: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population Currently the pop. is 7 billion
What is relevant is this: What kind people have NEM, how many people will use it and what will they buy?
This could be a situation in the future
In 20 years, NEM is the primary currency of earth with a total number of 8 billion coins.
[li]In 20 years, I think we will have more then 10 billion people, so the 1 NEM for every citizen doesn't quite fit the shoe-lid[/li]
[li]Price of peanut butter is something like 0,00001 NEM. So, how will we pronounce this? Or will we use milliNEM? I personally don't like that. [/li]
What is the purpose of NEM? Do I want to buy bread and groceries with it, or houses and cars? Both?
Is there a long term plan?
What is the purpose of NEM? Do I want to buy bread and groceries with it, or houses and cars? Both?
Is there a long term plan?
I think the purpose of NEM in my view is just going to be a fuel for transactions in the long run. The gems of NEM will come from the AE which will drive the entire NEM ecosystem.
Look at it as a containment of the crypto ecosystem.
Up until now, most blockchains are flawed. PoW promotes mining gear concentration (centralization) and PoS promotes wealth concentration (centralization again). NEM is neither and will remain hard to be monopolized. This will promote a robust and vibrant ecosystem.
I suggest you all should read this post too and challenge it till it is made more right (It is never wrong either as we are all guessing). https://forum.ournem.com/index.php?topic=2531.msg6776#msg6776
Yup, I've read it and it does make sense!
Basically, somebody needs to figure out a real reason why the number of NEM = XXXXXX because if we dont, people won't take us seriously. I like the 1 NEM for each person on Earth idea, but really we need somebody with a numbers back ground to figure this out. Not just me googling "how much money there is in the world" and multiplying that by 8 billion.
I really liked your idea about the 8 billion. But take a look at: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population Currently the pop. is 7 billion
What is relevant is this: What kind people have NEM, how many people will use it and what will they buy?
This could be a situation in the future
In 20 years, NEM is the primary currency of earth with a total number of 8 billion coins.
[li]In 20 years, I think we will have more then 10 billion people, so the 1 NEM for every citizen doesn't quite fit the shoe-lid[/li]
[li]Price of peanut butter is something like 0,00001 NEM. So, how will we pronounce this? Or will we use milliNEM? I personally don't like that. [/li]
What is the purpose of NEM? Do I want to buy bread and groceries with it, or houses and cars? Both?
Is there a long term plan?
In 20 years NEM would have got new names for 0.01 NEM and 0.0001 NEM, etc. Or there could have been a change in the NEM money system: eg. 1 NEM is changed to 1000 NEM, kind of split like in stock shares. Nothing is changed in the values, only in the names.
The total number of coins means nothing IMO. No one cares that there are 13.4M BTC in circulation. Catering to people that still believe in eating tiger penises and black rhino horns to improve virility seems like a complete waste of time. :
The total number of coins means nothing IMO. No one cares that there are 13.4M BTC in circulation. Catering to people that still believe in eating tiger penises and black rhino horns to improve virility seems like a complete waste of time. ::)
You forgot to mention, paws and bear bile, cats, dogs, snakes, human fetuses, artificial eggs, floating pigs on rivers, plastic milk and all those great hormones and steroids in feeds.
This means we need longevity and Chinese like 9 for that. 99 999 999 999 would be good. ;)