Nem Family, Please Help a Nem Lifer!

General Discussion
#21

Losing such an amount is a big tragedy for a user, sorry to hear that an old member of our community lost his xem :frowning:

You are not the only one losing access to his/her account though most of the others have lost less.
But I don’t think the community would be happy if we start thinking about reverting some transactions in the chain, it is against the concept of a blockchain. The new technology puts more responsibility on the user and thus we will see tragedies in the future too. But that was to be expected from the beginning.

I think the only thing you can do is setting up a new account and ask for some donations.

4 Likes
#22

there are a few things that comes to my mind when I read this and lots of other posts like this:

  1. Blockchain is immutable = unforgivable = 0 mistake tolerance.
    There are 10000 ways how to loose your crypto-funds and 0 ways how to get them back (maybe 1, if we cout the DAO fail)

  2. Immutability is the biggest (and probably the only) advantage of public blockchain. If NEM compromises its immutability, there is NOTHING left of NEM (or any other public blockchain - except etherum which seams to be doing fine …)

For this reasons, I think, blockchain will never be used by normal people for their day to day transactions or as store of value. Under the hood there will be some blockchain, but normal people will never broadcast transactions directly but rather through some 3rd party service provider who knows what he is doing (or at least he thinks he does).
Then, when 3rd party service provider meses up we have big problem.

Maybe some conditions under which immutability could be broken should be defined …
For example people could vote and the change will be executed by some smart contract.
Usually, standard crypto geeks (like me :D) dont even want to hear about this, but hey … etherum is doing fine … and if they had some contingency plan for cases like DAO fail before the actual DAO fail maybe etherum blockchain wouldnt even split …
However this will cause bad precedence for servces like Apostille, LuxTag …

Very hard problem to solve. In future we will read much more posts like this …

Regarding this case:
You should set up some acc for donations and marketing fund can double donations you get from random NEMsters…
There would probably have to be some voting for this, but it has much higher chance to go through than voting to destroy NEM blockchain :slight_smile:
I personally think, it would be nice use of marketing fund.

Lost my Nem? Please help
#23

think about this scenario:
the funds you now call yours are actually joint funds of 3 people and each of them holds hers private key. For example: you, your wife and your friend. Now you and your wife want to steal this funds from your friend without him knowing it. You somehow manage to persuade MEN community to do hard fork to delete your friends private key from multysig. After you and your wife spend all this funds on cocaine your friend comes here and proves he owns the third private key and claims NEM devs ripped him off => NEM is finished because cocaine dealer already exchanged this XEM for ZCASH on poloniex so another hard fork would be even more difficult(some would claim NEM was finished when devs started to consider doing hard fork for this).

Do you have cryptographic (=99,99999…%) proof that this scenario is not true?
No, because such proof does not exist. (Actually, only the proof that this scenario might be true exists = you dont have the third private key)
I think you are telling the truth, but if you can have hard fork, anyone can and in future there will be someone that misuses this precedes.

1 Like
#24

If someone loses his Xem is really tragic.
But we should make no change. Once we start making such changes, there will always be reasons to repeat this.

2/3

To help you, we should go a different way.

  • Donation
  • “unconventional marketing fund” (r3n3)
  • etc.
#25

I really feel for you in this situation. This is quite a sum to lose.
While I would be all for finding some route to make you whole

I do not support the idea of forking specifically for any one persons gain even when it is amongst a normal intended fork.
When I think of it it immediately sounds like a micro DAO situation.

4.5 Mil XEM is a very large sum, I consider myself lucky to even have a 10th of that but the cost to NEM as a project, should the idea of immutability be compromised , would be much greater.
What I would suggest is some form of donation fund which may or may not make you whole.

#26

Thanks for the response @BloodyRookie, @garm @rajc @gimre @NEMandertha1 @willowfoot @r3n3 @owon @GodTanu @Flash_Gordon . I appreciate your feedback and now truly understand the consequences of “reverting” my account. I would like to discuss 2 topics briefly:

  1. @BloodyRookie If I get my account to be supernode account again is there anyway to get the payouts in the separate account, which I can use? I understand that currently this is not an option, but would there be any way to set this up during the next update of the software. This could in a way protect the supernode accounts so the users do not have to access them to take xem out when needed.

  2. As you guys have advised, I will be working on setting up a donation account, and I would greatly appreciate everyones generosity. This is likely to much to ask for and maybe unreasonable, however I was wondering if there was a way the marketing fund would be willing to double the donations. If you guys think this is reasonable, @BloodyRookie what would be the best way to get community to vote on this?

#27

you mean you want to use the ‘lost’ account to let a supernode make some xem for you? Well i have to talk to QM who is coding the bot for automatically handling message to the noderewards account. I will do that.

I don’t know, i am not a marketing guy, maybe @jabo38 can give you an answer.

#28

Kind of hard to believe that the hdd is so damaged that nothing can be recovered.
Was is a hardware problem within the harddisk or what exactly was the “crash” doing to your hard disk?

#29

@BloodyRookie, appreciate you taking time to respond, I still have a .wlt file with my original account and its private key, from what I remember when I set up the supernode last 2 times I didn’t need a multisig accounts. However I may be wrong…
I have restored bunch of pictures and videos of my daughter from the hard-drive and many different files however unable to find the most update .wlt file that contained all my multisig accounts. I have used stellar phoenix mac data recovery and Lazesoft Mac Data Recovery and another one I can’t remember currently. Also I have brought my mac in to recovery specialists that are affiliated with the university I work for and they weren’t able to help me out. It’s been super-frustrating, however I can only blame myself!

#30

So the file was simply gone? i mean how did the folder /home/ < your_user> /nem/ncc look like?

#31

the recovery software only recovered a minimal amount of files from the “user” directory. Otherwise, there were at least 100 files that were appropriate size and date and with randomly assigned names by the recovery software, so I spend some time renaming all of them and attempting to open them up as a .wlt file, however that didn’t work. I’m open to any other suggestions…

#32

And those were not from the users folder?
Sounds bad indeed.

#33

Although the talk deviates a little, for me, there is an absolutely necessary function when using MacOS.

In addition to this case, we recommend that you introduce the “Time Machine” included with the OS on the premise that various things will happen.
It can be realized immediately if there is only a USB external HDD.

Even if the built-in HDD is damaged, if you replace it with a new HDD, you can recover immediately to the latest state.
Normally you can restore files on their own, arbitrarily, such as single files or folders.

Basically, the next backup will be saved as long as there is space.

  • Back up hourly for the past 24 hours
  • Back up every day for the past month
  • Weekly backups of all past months

When the capacity runs out, it is deleted from the oldest data.

1 Like
#34

the files were random locations, the recovery software didn’t know their original location

#35

this is def a must! and i had it until April of 2015, but not after that…It takes a lot of mistakes to mess this up and somehow I managed to do that!

1 Like
#36

Supernode rewards to different wallet could be handy for everyone, but will make it little more difficult to validate for normal user, that it is not abused?

Same concerns about doubling donations, exam. We have a deal that I donate 1M and get 1,5M back later and you get 0.5M.
So maybe vote of sum better.

Very sorry hear your lost.
I’m shocked that there even exists, some way to manipulate blockchain.

#37

How skilled are they. A good recovery service starts at $2000 USD, and it goes up from there. Might be worth it though…

#38

between everything i’ve spend it was in that price range, unfortunately i dont have funds to pursue this further, esp without any guarantee that it will work

#39

I feel sad for what happen to you, this is a big lost of your hard work.

#40

Thank you all for responding to this threat back in 2017. Going through some financial hardship during this pandemic and figured to see if there was any changed in ability to unlock my multisig account. Posting a pic of the nano-wallet. I can log in however unable to send these funds anywhere. If anyone is interested in trying to hack my wallet I’m willing to pay significant amount from the total in the photo. Thank you all took time to read this.

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1 Like