On failure sending even if I wrote accurate address and message. No one help me

Tech Support
#3

Hello @hisa.
First of all: why are you creating the duplicated ticket? Your old ticket (On failure sending even if I wrote accurate address and message [MOVED]) was already answered and moved to Exchange Support. Lost XEM at an exchange? Post here!.

Your money doesn’t appear on your Livecoin balance probably because Zaif uses the multisignature account (first time I see exchange use it) to make withdraws. Most exchanges don’t support automatic deposits processing from a multisig account (looks like Livecoin also). That’s why you should move your tokens first from Zaif to your nanowallet and from nanowallet to Livecoin.

Well, but the transaction is already done. That’s why you must contact Livecoin support because money are on Livecoin wallet and they should manually add your balance to your livecoin account. That is not true if they say that they can’t help you. The only owner of account ndkidq-ovcgn4-63jusa-uj3ykg-lvvlsz-v3zka4-6jqc (Livecoin) can return your money (noone from NEM support here).

They answer to you:

“Hello.
As mentioned earlier, due to the peculiarities of the coin, we can process only standard transactions. Unfortunately, we can not help you.”

This is not true. They don’t implement multisig account transaction processing but they can add your balance manually or return to your nanowallet because this money are on Livecoin wallet. The only thing you should do is give a hard proof that money from this transaction belongs to you. Maybe screenshots from Zaif withdraw will be enought.

Most exchanges have no problems returning money from transactions sent with missing message code. This is the same case because money can be returned manually by them.

#4

I do not want to do any waste “tit for tat” debate.

A screenshot of Zaif withdraw
http://fast-uploader.com/file/7065249916012/

[Live coin answer ]
http://fast-uploader.com/file/7065250082033/

#5
  1. Screenshot link doesn’t work (404).
  2. No-one from this forum can send back your tokens. Only Livecoin because money are on this exchange wallet.
#6

The other important point here is that you should NEVER transfer tokens of any kind directly between exchange accounts. Not XEM, not Bitcoin, nothing.

That’s because, if anything goes wrong (as in this case), you do not have immediate proof of ownership, as the transaction is between two exchange wallets you do not have the private keys for.

Always transfer to your OWN account first, and then that way you only have ONE exchange to deal with if something goes wrong - and you would know if you have the tokens in your account or not.

But you are where you are now… and as you have the proof of transaction from ZAIF, LiveCoin support should be able to use it to locate your XEM and credit your account.

As @CryptoBeliever says, the fact it’s a multis transaction only means they probably couldn’t process it automatically, but a real human could confirm the transaction and manually credit your account.

Either way, it’s down to LiveCoin to do something - as they are the only ones with the private key to the account:
NDKIDQ-OVCGN4-63JUSA-UJ3YKG-LVVLSZ-V3ZKA4-6JQC

Cheers
Rob

3 Likes
#7

@hisa let us know if LiveCoin successfully resolves your ticket and return your tokens. In my opinion, they should because it can be done easily manually and it also will have an impact on that how this exchange will be seen in the community (other exchanges returns such transactions to owner).

#8

Hello.
I’m a press officer of Livecoin.
I’d like to clarify question mentioned above since our client moved this on forum. First of all, we don’t work with multisig accounts/transactions, mosaic transactions and any inner transactions. We have a clear warning of this on XEM deposit form: “Please don’t send transactions from multisig accounts. We don’t process mosaic transactions and any inner transactions. We process only standard transactions with correct “message” field.”

We don’t work with multisig transactions because we didn’t make R&D of this technology, we don’t know how it works, we know nothing about guarantees, reliability etc.

R&D for new technology requires a decent amount of time and money. We decided to not invest our time and money in this technology, since this is an optional to work with XEM.

You read the warning in the deposit form about multisig transactions but still have sent one. What do you want from us? We will not make an exception for anyone, otherwise we have to process such a transactions for all the clients, not only for you.

For 95% of our assets we do process non-standard transactions manually and apply fee for processing. But we don’t process non-standard (including incorrect payment details) transactions for 2 of our assets: Monero, XEM. These two have complex internal structure. That is why we clearly warn our clients in the first step of depositing funds, that in case of mistake on client’s side, transaction will not be processed. If you don’t agree, don’t deposit XEM, XMR.

That is why you must send a small transaction first to avoid such an issues. This is not hard, isn’t it?

We’d like to remind to our client that he broke a user agreement by putting private correspondence on the forum.

Catapult API - transfer summary for transaction object
#9

Hello @LiveCoin,

Yes, it’s true that on deposit page you have warnings about not supporting multisignature transfers and required message code. As I understand, you stand on the position that you don’t return manually tokens if the customer forgets to attach message code or use multisignature transaction (as in this case).

I was surprised because couple exchanges I know return money manually to the owner if he/she forget to add message code (it was required only give a proof of ownership this tokens - for example, second transfer with code). It’s my first case with the multisig transaction but from my perspective, this is the similar case (maybe from your point of view not) because tokens are added to your wallet balance. To tell the truth we have a lot of tickets with the problem when a customer put wrong message code or forget it. Most of them are resolved by exchanges support (Exchange Support. Lost XEM at an exchange? Post here!). It’s, of course, the question of exchange goodwill and internal rules.

Money (tokens) are added to LiveCoin wallet (ndkidq-ovcgn4-63jusa-uj3ykg-lvvlsz-v3zka4-6jqc). What will happen with this tokens if they are not returned? Now they belong to nobody? Customers can have some doubts if it’s this just.

Summarizing:

@hisa rules (warnings) from deposit page was accepted by you when you send tokens. It’s your mistake sending multisignature transaction (directly from Zaif) and for exchange, it’s additional manually work if they must credit this manually (they have also security restrictions as @LiveCoin already write above). Exchange warns you what will happen when you send multisig transaction (“tokens will be lost”).

@LiveCoin, of course, you have right in terms that you warn the customer about possibility losing tokens. Still, tokens are on your wallet (if support is not sure it can be confirmed by exchange developers) and with some goodwill and effort can be returned manually. This, of course, requires some confirmations on your site and this possibility depends also on your internal rules.

I’m sure all here (exchanges and crypto community) want to crypto will be even bigger and all customers have faith in it.

Good night and I’m sorry for my English :wink:

#10

Hi,
I have sent the same question a few months ago on all exchanges handling xem in the world.
I am doing this kind of work.

In the case of xem,

  • I forgot to attach a deposit message.
  • When remitting from a multi-sig account.

These two problems become a problem.

Forgetting message:
The exchanges that profess to prohibit this response are CoinCheck exchanges only.
However, I know the case of correspondence.

In the case of multi-sig account:
It is written that many exchanges can not deal with it.
However, in the end, we will respond.
Currently, the exchanges that absolutely did not correspond will be Livecoin only.

This is the fact of the present situation.

From the security point of view, you can understand that it is desirable not to correspond. Mistakes are clearly on the customer.

As a human being involved in various kinds of development, I know that warnings are meaningless and humans always make mistakes. However, I will not explain this point dare. There is no special meaning here.
By the way, the president of TechBrew who manages Zaif said this kind of thing.
“Originally we should not deal with it, but we have to respond.”

Since the right to decide the rule is on the exchange operator, I think that justice is on individual exchanges.

Such a case will come out from now on.
However, the violation xem owned by Livecoin 's deposit address should be worthless in case of current response. It is ethically impossible to use this as the original xem.

Thanks

#11

@LiveCoin - whist I understand your position as being “correct” - it seems harsh.

As @mizunashi says, people make mistakes. And although, like many exchanges, your rules state you cannot deal with such transactions, yours is the only exchange that has refused to do anything in exceptional cases such as this (in effect, a $1270 mistake!)

The truth is the tokens are not “lost”. They are sitting in an account which you control the private keys for. It would be immoral and unethical if you ever used them, perhaps even illegal as you are effectively holding them in trust.

So please confirm what will happen to these XEM. How will you ensure they are never used and made worthless?

Or perhaps there is another way - could you not agree to transfer amount less a manual administration fee of e.g. 250XEM (approx $50)? That would compensate you for the inconvenience of manual processing and make the mistake less expensive for your customer.

Cheers
Rob

1 Like
#13

@LiveCoin can do what they want, it is their exchange, and they make the rules.

However, I disagree with their practices, and I encourage them to change their stance on this matter.

2 Likes
#14

@hisa, @LiveCoin can I ask if tokens are successfully returned?

#15

I also remitted from Zaif to Livecoin on 10/31.
Contacted again support to 11/16, but there is no reply.

2 Likes
#16

@Mogamin You are also a Japanese.
Because Japanese have many withdrawals from Zaif, I think that there are other many people in the same situation.

1 Like
#17

when XEN is derived from LIVECOIN.NET require you to enter the Message ID, and where to get it? Help

#18

You should only need a message if sending TO livecoin. They will give you the message that is needed.

I suggest not using livecoin, you can read the messages above to see why.

#19

No, I lost my 7944XEM.

You should try it with small money.

#21

I suggest not using @LiveCoin exchange if they have such approach to user mistakes… Tokens are on they wallet and every exchange I know (except livecoin) returns in such a situation tokens. Poor customer service.

#22

I recommend that your NEM staff visit “Live Coin Company” as soon as possible.

#23

The exchange decides the rules of the exchange.
Even if the rule is not general, the NEM side can only request it.
As long as the exchange refuses, nothing can be done.
If we judge that there is an ethical problem, we can only use the power of the state etc.

Generally, I think that you agree with the terms of use when using the exchange.
Because of this agreement, you need to observe the rules of the exchange.
However, the law prevails over the decision of the exchange.
If you have legal problems, please conflict with the exchange in some way.
NEM as the issuer can only request.

1 Like
#24

Information from LIVECOIN

Dear clients, due to high load, we have to remove part of outdated transactions, this will not affect your balance in any sense. This is just a technical action designed to optimize work of our Exchange. So, we ask you to export old transactions (if you need old data) till December 20.
You can do this in the transactions section and export data in any required format. After we finish our optimization, transactions will be available for the last 2 months only

[ I send the following my message to LIVECOIN ]

I need my NEM outdated transaction data (private key)that I could not receive.

日時 (Japanese time): 2017/10/23 19:39:57
アドレス(address): NDKIDQOVCGN463JUSAUJ3YKGLVVLSZV3ZKA46JQC
メッセージ(message): ca9a87dd8a9aa25b
XEM: 7944.00000000XEM
hash: 063a0ff3bf756ecff4c6b2acbcbfafbc93c4044ff813863ded2a8fae069a7a37